School AND Police Overreaction

[mathnerd]

Why is it that every time there's a thread involving a questionable school rule, people treat"the school has the right to do this" as if it meant "the school is right in doing this?" And why do people talk as if there were meaningful choice in signing a form that's mandatory?

The form might be "mandatory", but they can't enforce that part. I've refused to sign several forms for my children and the schools have attempted to keep them from school, but every time I remind them of the appropriate federal law, and they back down.

Those school handbook rules have been tested before and the schools generally win. The bottom line is that the schools are covering their butts legally, and it's up to the parents to know their rights.

In the case in question, there were probably several options for this girl and her family for her to be able to keep her phone on her. Again with an example from my family, all of my children have a special exception to the cell phone rules at their respective schools because we have a very, very good reason for asking for the exception, and the school agreed, so they gave it to us. It was the family's responsibility to do what I did: contact the school, explain the situation and get the exception. They didn't do that.

Again, let me repeat that I do NOT condone the school's actions. They grossly over-reacted for what was a fairly minor infraction. I'd expect that sort of response if the student had a weapon, not a cell phone. The school is clearly in the wrong insofar as their reaction was concerned.

[50missioncap]

Stress has been proven, pretty conclusively, to make people act in otherwise irrational ways. It overloads the frontal lobe, which is the part of the brain that deals with impulses and decision making. It's expecting a child who is under obvious stress to react in a rational manner that is truly irrational.

^this. IMO police need training to de-escalate situations and to deal with stress/mental health.

[Herebecause]

Why is it all-so incredibly important for students to have their cell phones and be allowed to use them whenever they want to? This student used her cell phone during class - therefore disrupting the teacher and the other students in the classroom. Does that count for anything? I shared a link to a story about why cell phones aren't allowed in schools, but frankly, I didn't think the obvious needs to be pointed out, but I guess I was wrong - too many people think they are being subtle and no one around them knows that they are on their phone, while everyone around them knows (such as this young lady). Minimizing classroom disruptions is fairly important in schools, so schools take actions to do so.

My DH is a teacher. He is not allowed to have his cell phone on him during school hours. If I need to reach him and it is an emergency (and in 10+ years of marriage I'd say this has happened twice), I call the main office and they get him. We can survive as a family without being in touch 24/7. To take what this young lady did even further, when my MIL was in the hospital dying, DH spoke to the principal and he was allowed to keep his phone on him, on silent. The entire family knew to contact me, and I'd text him if it could not wait. So, by asking politely and ahead of time, we received an exception to the rules.

Yes the school over-reacted, but frankly I had no pity for this young lady up until I read what happened to her because she refused to hand over her cell phone. The punishment did not fit the crime.

As far as her not knowing her AP, I couldn't say, but I think that if she didn't know who the AP was, they'd have shared that in the story to help justify why she felt she was above the rules.

[Rageaholic]

I guess they don't really *need* cell phones, but I wish schools weren't so old fashioned about them. I get that they're annoying and can be disruptive (don't get me started on ringtones), but so can anything.

Personally, I find the people who are so militantly opposed to cell phones more annoying than cell phones can be. Though in this case, I wouldn't have found the anti cell phone crowd so annoying if they didn't steal them and fine people to get them back.

[TheHuckster]

I get the feeling these measures are the result of a lot of problems classrooms have been having regularly regarding cellphones. Students are using them to text others, play games, and disrupt the class. It's more than just the ringtones, but the students themselves are getting distracted by their own cellphones even if they're in silent mode.

My wife is a college professor and she has caught students using their cellphones to try to cheat on exams and quizzes, spread rumors about others (you'd think they'd grow out of that after highschool but you'd be incorrect), and be otherwise disruptive.

She doesn't ask students to hand over their cellphones, nor does she have any authority to fine them for disrupting class, but she has docked their participation grade if they are clearly using them in lieu of listening, and will give a 0 on an exam if they're caught googling on their phones, which is usually pretty easy to catch.

If a ringtone goes off in class, she doesn't blow a gasket over it (unless it's a habitual problem), and usually the student is naturally embarrassed by it and will apologize.

I guess they don't really *need* cell phones, but I wish schools weren't so old fashioned about them. I get that they're annoying and can be disruptive (don't get me started on ringtones), but so can anything.

Among the average highschool student's common personal items, the cellphone is the only one I can think of that makes noise just by being there. Can you name a common item in a highschool's pocket or backpack that could do the same that isn't typically banned or frowned upon? Contrary to your "old-fashioned" comment, this isn't a new concept. Even when I was in school before cellphones were popular they had to ban digital watches and tomagotchis for the same reason.

[HYHYBT]

Digital watches DON'T "make noise just by being there," and any school official who banned them for such a reason is an idiot. If students were using theirs to make noise, the thing to do is to punish the noise-making, not the watch possession itself.

And cell phones can be set not even to vibrate... or turned off entirely, though that stops the missed call list from working properly.

[TheHuckster]

Students would often set alarms on their watches or have them make sound on the top of the hour. No matter what the teachers said about the matter, it would still keep happening, and so instead of repeating themselves with futility, they decided to outright ban them. Blame the idiot students who just can't figure out how to shut off their damn watch.

Same goes for cellphones. Yes, you can and should put them on silent, but there are often enough idiots who forget to do that which makes teachers feel like they have to just take them out of the classroom entirely to fix the problem, since clearly telling them to put them on silent isn't fixing it.

[s_stabeler]

The thing is, the issue isn't even about the ban on cell phones- the issue really boils down to thhe fact that the school over-reacted in getting cops in to ARREST the girl- yes, she was actually ARRESTED- for, as far as I can tell, either disrespect to the AP, or not handing over her cell phone. That, and considering the fact that this was apparently her FIRST offense, the school probably should have shown some leniancy. (in this case, by waiving the fee)

That, and there's a related issue: the girl had already been punished by the teacher for having her cell phone out- by sending her out of the class (perhaps the teacher was being fleexible due to knowing of the mother's medical isssues?). Then the AP comes along, and decides that no, that isn't enough- she must surrrender the phone. Then it becomes quite different- it then becomes a situation where a punishment is arbitraruly increased. Say it was a diffferent situation, and the girl had simply been muckking aorund in class, and was given a 5 minute after-school detention. Then, during thta detention, the AP pops their head in, and decides that no, it should be a 1 hour detention, not 5 minutes. That is unreasonable- both because an hour detnetion reallly needs the parents notified( if nothing else, so they know the kid will be late home) and because it creates a fear that the punishment will be further increased.

again- the girl deserved to be punished. Had the teacher required she surrender her phone, I would have expressed annoyance about the fee, but pretty much accepted it. It's the AP deciding that no, the phone must be surrendered as well that grates on me. That, and having her ARRESTED.

[Kagato]

. The classrooms have phones. If there is an emergency, they can call you there. Granted it isn't as direct, but cell phone use wouldn't be an issue.

Still, when I was in school, in such a situation whoever was calling the student would call the school office, which would either call for them over the intercom or send someone with a message. There's no reason such an arrangement wouldn't work now; it's just that people are used to always being able to call the person they want to talk to, rather than the place that person is, and likewise to being called directly, so they don't think of other options.

I trust schools as far as I could chuck them with regards to passing on messages. I missed out on saying my final goodbyes to my grandfather when he died because the school said that they would send a messenger to let me know and I never got the message - my class was out of the room at the time and had left a message on the board saying "WE ARE AT <Location>" - yet did the messenger come find us? nooooo! Just bloody toddled back off to the office. My Aunt finally tracks me down, having come up to the school personally wondering what was taking me so long, me being absolutely clueless as to how dire things were, we both rush off only for me to get back home about 5 minutes after my grandfather had died.

The school admin gave us a written apology but I never forgave them for stealing my final goodbye with him. These days I carry my phone wherever I go, to hell with regulations.

[Herebecause]

The thing is, the issue isn't even about the ban on cell phones- the issue really boils down to thhe fact that the school over-reacted in getting cops in to ARREST the girl- yes, she was actually ARRESTED- for, as far as I can tell, either disrespect to the AP, or not handing over her cell phone. That, and considering the fact that this was apparently her FIRST offense, the school probably should have shown some leniancy. (in this case, by waiving the fee)

That, and there's a related issue: the girl had already been punished by the teacher for having her cell phone out- by sending her out of the class (perhaps the teacher was being fleexible due to knowing of the mother's medical isssues?). Then the AP comes along, and decides that no, that isn't enough- she must surrrender the phone. Then it becomes quite different- it then becomes a situation where a punishment is arbitraruly increased. Say it was a diffferent situation, and the girl had simply been muckking aorund in class, and was given a 5 minute after-school detention. Then, during thta detention, the AP pops their head in, and decides that no, it should be a 1 hour detention, not 5 minutes. That is unreasonable- both because an hour detnetion reallly needs the parents notified( if nothing else, so they know the kid will be late home) and because it creates a fear that the punishment will be further increased.

again- the girl deserved to be punished. Had the teacher required she surrender her phone, I would have expressed annoyance about the fee, but pretty much accepted it. It's the AP deciding that no, the phone must be surrendered as well that grates on me. That, and having her ARRESTED.

I agree with you on the point that the school over-reacted. I support the rule and I've stated multiple times that is the case. That said, I need to correct a statement you made. I googled this when I first read the story here, so I can't say for sure which article I read that stated this, but the AP didn't just happen to come by; the teacher that kicked her out of the classroom notified the AP. Still doesn't change that this was an over-reaction, but the teacher did not view kicking her out of the classroom as the punishment, (s)he viewed it as sending her out to deal with her punishment.

[s_stabeler]

Ok, I didn't know that. I still think that the sc hool should ahve been flexible on the policy, however. ( as for it meaning that everyonbe would start bringing their phones in- simple. Make it that either exceptionjal circumstances result in the fee being waived, or that the fee is waived for a first offense each year- any future offenses must pay the fee. If the fee is not paid, the phone is returned after havng been kept for a month. This is to account for situations where someone genuinely can't afford the fee)

(well, I still feel taking the phone is enough, but it would be how I'd implement sduch a system)

[Estil]

Well the school shootings thing is a very weak excuse to treat schools/students like prisons/prisoners. Contrary to popular myth, school shootings are nothing new.

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