Sandra Bland Arrest/Suicide.

[s_stabeler]

while you aren't wrong, Greenday, Blunt TOLD the jail she had a HISTORY of depression ( and it was Blunt that brought up her previous attempt at suicide) - even if you believe she was lying to cause a scene, THAT should be what triggered her being put on suicide watch. Blunt was more-or-less telling the jail "I'm a suicide risk" So she SHOULD have been on suicide watch. That, COMBINED with her being left alone in a cell with an abnormally large trashbag- for cells, anyway- makes me suspicious that the cops at a minimum didn't care a great deal about if she survived or not. Is it murder? probably not, HOWEVER, it really hinges on why she was put in a cell with the abnormalyl large trashbag. If they merely had a brainfart, then fair enough- though they should really lose their jobs- but if they deliberately placed a suicidal person in a cell that had mthods of suicide not normally available, it makes me suspicious.

and Rapscallion, it's not, or at least not traditional manslaughter. Manslaughter is when the intent to kill isn't there. What i was taking about was indeed "depraved heart" murder, where you more-or-less set up somebody to get killed, but don't actually kill them yourself. (to give a somewhat more blatant example than in Blunt's case, leaving a suicidal person alone with a loaded pistol.)

[the_std]

Pretty sure in America, you have to be the one who killed the person to commit manslaughter. As for them having a reasonable belief that she was going to kill herself, even that's a little far fetched. She previously tried to kill herself after she lost a pregnancy the previous year. Seeing as that was situational and she was not pregnant or had not recently had the same issue, did they REALLY have any reason to believe she was about to kill herself?

Did you miss the part where policy dictated that she be placed on a mandatory suicide watch due to her previous record, and her telling the police she was suicidal? Or how about the video-monitored cell she was supposed to be placed in, but wasn't? Or, failing that, the fact that they didn't check on her face to face like they were supposed to, AND what checking they did was not nearly as often was it was supposed to be?

Why are you defending this part? I know you have this weird cop fetish, but this is one of the parts of this situation where there was a CLEAR course of action prescribed, and the officer neglected every single piece of it.

[Greenday]

If memory serves, the UK term is 'manslaughter'.

Rapscallion

Pretty sure in America, you have to be the one who killed the person to commit manslaughter.

As for them having a reasonable belief that she was going to kill herself, even that's a little far fetched. She previously tried to kill herself after she lost a pregnancy the previous year. Seeing as that was situational and she was not pregnant or had not recently had the same issue, did they REALLY have any reason to believe she was about to kill herself?

I mean, saying that they should have known she was going to try to kill herself because she tried it once after a super traumatic situation (Which had nothing to do with the current situation) means we should suspect everyone who has ever tried to kill themselves will try it again. No one can get better apparently.

[Rapscallion]

There's a name for what you're describing - negligent, or "depraved heart", murder.

If memory serves, the UK term is 'manslaughter'.

Rapscallion

[Shangri-laschild]

But there's a huge difference between murder and bad procedures.

Agreed but along with that, there's also a difference between bad procedures that resulted in forgetting to buy extra supplies (as an example) and bad procedures that led to someone dying when there were numerous ways that it could have been prevented. As far as I'm concerned when that many things have been screwed up and it resulted in a death, it's a lot further towards the murder end of the spectrum than it is towards the forgot to order supplies end.

[the_std]

there's an argument that negiligence on a bad enough level is equivalent to murder though- and since I was the person who first brought up murder, I should probably explain that was what i meant- negligence on such a scale that it more-or-less indicates you didn't care if they survived.

There's a name for what you're describing - negligent, or "depraved heart", murder.

[s_stabeler]

there's an argument that negiligence on a bad enough level is equivalent to murder though- and since I was the person who first brought up murder, I should probably explain that was what i meant- negligence on such a scale that it more-or-less indicates you didn't care if they survived. Combined with the fact that (certainly arguably) the jail owes a duty of care to prisoners then, depending on exactly what happened ( why was the trash can there? Why were the only pictures we have taken post-mortem?) there is a case for something like murder.

Basically, was this a case of cops being incompetent, or was it a case of actual malice- i.e. where the cops, while not actually killing Blunt, deliberately placed her in a situation where she would likely commit suicide. If she was deliberately placed in such a situation, the cops should be up for murder. If not, the cops should be fired for gross incompetence.

[Greenday]

I dispatch police. They make up most of the coworkers I chat with at work. I really do hate it when people don't look at all the available facts of a police incident before crying out that the officer was in the wrong especially when they call the officer a killer. However this officer was in the wrong. Does that make him a killer? No. But it does mean that he clearly has some issues with doing his job safely without seriously escalating a situation. That is a problem that needs to be taken care of.

Well, no one here is arguing against that. Everyone here has agreed that there was no reason to get physical with her or arrest her.

Maybe there isn't a conspiracy going on. Maybe there is just a lot of incompetence. Either way, there is a problem that needs to be fixed.

And I think we can all agree on this too. But there's a huge difference between murder and bad procedures.

[Shangri-laschild]

It's like people are trying to come up with whatever excuse they can to call cops killers.

I dispatch police. They make up most of the coworkers I chat with at work. I really do hate it when people don't look at all the available facts of a police incident before crying out that the officer was in the wrong especially when they call the officer a killer. However this officer was in the wrong. Does that make him a killer? No. But it does mean that he clearly has some issues with doing his job safely without seriously escalating a situation. That is a problem that needs to be taken care of.

The people at the jail weren't following policy by not patrolling as often as they were supposed to. They didn't put her on suicide watch which is a problem. They screwed up and are heavily negligent even if it is a flat out suicide.

Maybe there isn't a conspiracy going on. Maybe there is just a lot of incompetence. Either way, there is a problem that needs to be fixed.

I can't remember if I saw this here or on my facebook wall but I remember comments about the pictures of the cell being inaccurate. The fact that there is a trash bag in the garbage can in the pictures doesn't seem all that odd to me from a regular custodial stand point. There could have been more than one bag in the can. That's how they do it where I work anyway. That would mean that there was more than one big trash bag in her cell which still is a problem but it is an argument against them tampering with the scene before taking the pictures. But again, even if all these weird things aren't tampering, they are still fairly clear signs that the policies and procedures at the jail need to be updated and properly followed.

[Gravekeeper]

One more minor note of fuckery: Turns out this jail has 2 cells with monitored interior cameras. For, you guessed it, prisoners they suspect might harm themselves. Prisoners with possible mental health issues are suppose to be checked on, visually, every 15 minutes.

Additionally, as soon as Bland ticked the boxes on the screening for depression/suicide etc, the jail was suppose to contact the magistrate to consult for a mental health review. Which, of course, they did not. It should also be noted that the first forms indicate depression/suicide. But a second set of forms, filled out 3 hours later, do not. Not that that changes much, as state guidelines say they were suppose to contact the magistrate after the first form.

Honestly, this has been so badly mishandled ( and began with such a clear case of an officer acting unlawfully. Also, like an asshole. ) that it doesn't really matter what the results of any follow up investigation are. The problem is so systemic that people, especially black people, have no reason to trust law enforcement at all. Especially lately when its just one dead black person after another the moment cops get anywhere near them.

It doesn't help that they started following the "blame the victim" playbook they always go for when they inadvertently kill a black person.

[Andara Bledin]

Could officers have killed her in her cell? It's possible, it's even plausible.

Totally anecdotal, but the local officers when I lived in Anaheim (an upscale area - same one that Tiger Woods grew up in) murdered the white trash loser who lived with his parents across the street from us while in jail. They'd beaten him so badly during the arrest that he was partially paralyzed. And yet, he still managed to use his belt to make a noose and hang himself from something on the ceiling with it... >_> Nobody was buying it, but since the guy was a waste of oxygen, nobody contested it, either. (he was in jail on that particular stint due to punching his girlfriend in the gut in an attempt to maker her miscarry)

Mouthing off while in jail nearly always gets you abused and can and sometimes does lead to getting you murdered.

[Gravekeeper]

It all just seems way too unlikely to be some huge conspiracy theory. It's like people are trying to come up with whatever excuse they can to call cops killers.

No one said it was a huge conspiracy theory. Its a train wreck of assholes and incompetents, basically.

She was alive when they checked in on her at 7pm. She was dead when they checked in against at 8:55pm.

AM, not PM. They checked on her at 7am ( or rather they claim she said she "I'm fine" through the door ), and claim she used the intercom at 8am to ask them how to make a phone call ( there is no record of any call, however ) then they discovered her at 9am. However, there is no video recording from 7:34am to 9:07am from the camera outside her cell and that camera is motion activated.

The regs state they're to check on prisoners hourly, face to face. Hence the numerous problems here. No one checked on her regularly or properly and they're now in ass covering mode.

The cop killed her because he had a chip on his shoulder? Really? All because she refused to put a cigarette out? That's insane! He already got her arrested and got what he wanted. And when did he magically appear in the jail cell to kill her?

You're building a straw man, stop it. No one said anything like this. Let alone suggested the cop snuck into her cell to strangle her or any such bullshit.

[Greenday]

It all just seems way too unlikely to be some huge conspiracy theory. It's like people are trying to come up with whatever excuse they can to call cops killers.

She was alive when they checked in on her at 7pm. She was dead when they checked in against at 8:55pm. The cop killed her because he had a chip on his shoulder? Really? All because she refused to put a cigarette out? That's insane! He already got her arrested and got what he wanted. And when did he magically appear in the jail cell to kill her? The station's footage shows no one entering her cell so murder is obviously impossible (Unless someone wants to suggest a cop crawled through a ventilation shaft into her cell). And she was alive when she was arrested. The fact that someone video taped her arrest proves that. I'm used to crazy conspiracy theories but not on this board.

[Aragarthiel]

She was a civil rights activist, so you can bet she wasn't quiet in jail. The officers probably got tired of her complaining and ignored her.

It's a full sized trash bin, and I don't know why any jail would ever put one in each cell.

These may be related.

If she was being loud, they may have decided to put her in a cell they wouldn't normally use, except possibly for storage, where she would be as far away from them as possible. If they were too lazy to move the trash can out of the cell when they put her in there, that could explain it.

[Kara_CS]

That still begs the question, what was she doing with a full sized garbage bag?

That's one of the indisputable facts about this case that I can't understand. You can see the trash can in the photos of her cell. It's a full sized trash bin, and I don't know why any jail would ever put one in each cell. When inmates get trash cans, they get small, plastic wastebaskets. Plastic bags are usually only given when inmates need to put ice on an injury, and they are small, wastebasket-sized bags. But a 30-gallon can and bag? That's utterly ridiculous and unnecessary.

I think it's odd that she chose to make a noose out of the bag as well. That just doesn't happen, not when there are bed sheets that won't tear, won't make sound, and will absolutely hold an adult human's body weight. These are the facts that got me intrigued about this case, because even on the surface there seems to be something going on out of the ordinary, but at the same time, none of the oddities make any kind of sense at all. The technical term, I think, would be that this entire situation was one ginormous clusterfuck. Yes, I would still like to see the video of her walking to her cell, but it wouldn't change the fact that a lot of odd things happened.