This Really Bothers Me...

[Flyndaran]

In the case of many people (Rubystars in particular) I have a great deal of respect for her opposing view.

Now see I may have respect for the person, but certainly not for the view.

[blas87]

I agree with you whole heartedly, Pepper. Nothing but the utmost respect for that right there.

And STD, you have a very valid point as well. But for me, I feel some people with the devil's advocate tendencies do tend to think that they are always right.

[Peppergirl]

If it's objectively wrong then it isn't a valid opinion.
I can't have an opinion that 2 plus 2 is five.

So you're saying my opinion isn't valid and is wrong?

[the_std]

Again, where did I say that, or even insinuate that my opinion is right and everyone elses is wrong?

I was replying to blas' post, not yours.

Plus you're cherry-picking again. Broomjockey was pointing out that by you saying that you think devil's advocates are the same as trolls, it invalidates what they say and makes a debate nearly impossible.

Besides, why would you want to hold an opinion where you actively know you're wrong?

[BroomJockey]

Or even that while your reasoning is okay, why other people have a valid point.

Did I somewhere say that people who have a differing opinion of devils advocacy don't have a valid point?

I

Are you doing that on purpose? I never said you did. I was explaining why people play devil's advocate, while still stating that they're doing it. To say "I don't have to be right" is the entire problem with your position, however. You have no reasoning for holding it. It's like you're defining up as left, and acknowledging that you're holding a different definition, and then saying that this won't create any issues when I try to give you directions to my house.

[the_std]

And STD, you have a very valid point as well. But for me, I feel some people with the devil's advocate tendencies do tend to think that they are always right.

Then it ceases to become devil's advocacy if they actually believe the points they're making. It just becomes their opinion. Devil's advocates take opinions opposite the ones being presented on purpose.

[Flyndaran]

So you're saying my opinion isn't valid and is wrong?

Even you weren't sure of the proper definition.
There is a proper definition and refusing to believe it is not a valid opinion. It can be verified
Maybe you have a different opinion of the word valid.

[BroomJockey]

So you're saying my opinion isn't valid and is wrong?

If it's objectively proven incorrect, yes. It is, in fact, possible to be wrong.

I feel some people with the devil's advocate tendencies do tend to think that they are always right.

Definition clarification: people who play devil's advocate don't actually hold the position they're defending. That precludes them from being correct.

[Peppergirl]

Even you weren't sure of the proper definition.
There is a proper definition and refusing to believe it is not a valid opinion. It can be verified
Maybe you have a different opinion of the word valid.

I find this statement terribly and amusingly ironic.

[the_std]

Maybe you have a different opinion of the word valid.

I like it!

And it seems as though we're channeling each other, BJ.

[Pedersen]

So you're saying my opinion isn't valid and is wrong?

Your opinion does not change the definition of the word. So, therefore, your opinion in this case is invalid and wrong unless and until you manage to get the definition changed in dictionaries and in everyday use.

Good luck with that struggle.

[blas87]

I think it would be fair to say that everyone's opinions are wrong then, not just Pepper's.

[BroomJockey]

I think it would be fair to say that everyone's opinions are wrong then, not just Pepper's.

Fair, but untrue. Trolling has a common, accepted, codified meaning. Devil's Advocate also has one, which is different from trolling. To state that they are the same is wrong. To state they are different, as people have done, is right.

[the_std]

I think it would be fair to say that everyone's opinions are wrong then, not just Pepper's.

But why? Devil's advocates are defined as something specific. She thinks it's something different. This is not an abortion topic or a gun control topic. This is something with a black and white answer. Her opinion of the definition is incorrect. It's that easy.

[Flyndaran]

I think it would be fair to say that everyone's opinions are wrong then, not just Pepper's.

Huh? Most opinions are based on subective unprovable ideas.