Childfree, Childless, etc.

[gremcint]

On another note. Some parents seem to think that because they have kids they are better at nonrelated thngs. The were these black single mohers on the amazing race (describing to help people remember them) and every single challenge they would to each other say things like: come on *name* you gave birth you can climb that cliff, if you can give birth you can assemble that windmill, you gave birth therefore you can speak japanese, you gave birth therefore you can perform neurosurgery, you gave birth which means you can defuse a nuclear bomb, leap a tall building in a single bound, more powerful than a locomotive and so on.

I was really glad when they lost.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Plus, some people have a very skewed idea on what constitutes an emergency. Rushing little Suzie to the emergency room cuz she fell and cut her head = emergency. Rushing little Suzie to cheerleading practice = not an emergency. -.-

Can't forget to mention Ms "But my kids are sickkk!", who's kids mysteriously got ill every Friday, meaning that their mother had to take every weekend off. She didn't get away with that for long, and then she whined, "But you're discriminating against mothers!" Since the manager who told her off was also a mother, that didn't go down too well. XD

[Cat]

I can completely understand if someone has to rush to the doc to take kiddo in....hell,we all have emergencies, but giving someone a preferred shift or vacation based on your family life is just wrong.

Oh, and on emergencies.....I want the some consideration if I have to rush one of my cats in!!

[MaggieTheCat]

Congratulations on your very recent wedding!

Thank you!

The call center I used to work for was really good about being impartial when it came to things like holiday shifts and shift changes. It was always first come, first serve, with no consideration for circumstances outside of the job (like what an employee's family structure looked like.) If someone was working an afternoon shift and wanted to work an earlier shift, they could put in a request for it. If a first shift spot opened up, the person who put their shift request in first got first dibs. I did interviewing and I got a lot of people who would come in and say "Oh, I have to work 8-4 because my kids are in daycare and it closes at 4:30 so I can't work evenings." I'd tell them, "Then I'm afraid this position is not for you." and that was that.

Once we hired a single mother who wanted a morning shift but took an evening shift since that's all we had open. A few weeks after we hired her, we had a first shift spot open up, but she didn't get it, because there were other (more senior) agents who had been on the wait-list for a first shift position since before she was even hired. She got PISSED and told the manager right out, "It isn't FAIR to see these other people getting MY shift!" Yeah, she thought it was HER shift, and her whole reason for wanting first shift was because of her kids. I get that it's frustrating and that parents would prefer to work mornings but it doesn't always work that way! That woman didn't make it much longer within our company before she got let go for a variety of reasons.

[BlaqueKatt]

parental leave never affected me in any manner-however because I don't have custody of my son-guess who got to work EVERY DAMN HOLIDAY! Apparently I don't have a family-I should tell my mom and sister that-

At the call center we had 4 hour shifts we had to sign up for on holidays-I don't drive and the buses don't run on holidays after a certain time(usually 6pm-I lived 20 miles across town most of them lived within 2 miles)-so due to transportation issues I HAD to work one of the morning shifts or pay $100 for a cab there and back(total pay for that day was $78-for time and a half). It never failed I would get signed up for a morning shift and a parent would whine to a manager and I got bumped to the night shift-when I couldn't get there. Fortunately the operations manager would change it back-but I'd get cussed up one side and down the other by whatever parent had wanted my shift -so "they could spend time with their children" And obviously I didn't understand how important it was to them as I was just a selfish, child-hating, heartless, b*tch.

Even better was NYE-i had paid $200 for tickets to an exclusive party for myself and my husband-I got scheduled to work(after requesting and being approved for vacation 4 months in advance), because all the parents had hired babysitters and wanted to go out and party and I "didn't understand how important it was to them to have time away from their children"

Heck all of them whined during "shift bid"* because they had daycare issues(my employer actually compiled and handed out a list of daycares that were open second and third shift, had openings, and took state/county assistance) and claimed the parents should get first shift only while the rest of us should be forced to work nights(night shift was very slow-and ended an hour after the buses stopped running)-they even tried a "walkout"-and were told if they didn't get back to work they were all fired-one of them made the mistake of talking about doing it in front of me-I was a lower-level manager at the time-the higher ups were notified of the plan-as I was quite attached to having a job and their little "stunt" could have cost us all our jobs.


*shift bid-your call stats for previous 3 months are tallied(call time, hold time, after call,schedule adherence,attendance-etc) you are given a number to bid for available shifts-first numbers(better stats) get first bid. And guess which people had the lowest stats? I was #1 out of over 700 employees.


I have no problems with anyone as long as they don't expect special treatment-and one of our managers-single mom with 4 kids-would lay into anyone that attempted to pull the "but I have chiiiiildreeeennnn!" card-she was both a damn good parent and an excellent worker/manager-and she worked whatever shift she was needed on without complaint.

[Cat]

Yeah, I've heard that on some childfree forums I've skimmed.....childless sounds more like "I want kids, can't have em" or that one is missing out on kids. Childfree is a better term for those who chose not to have kids, but meh.....whatever anyone calls it....I ain't havin' kids

[Lace Neil Singer]

I also don't like being called "childless"; the term seems to signify that I'm somehow missing out. "Childfree" is much better. ^^

[Cat]

I'm childfree, and so far people being on parental leave at work had not affected me directly.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I personally don't give two shits about maternity or paternity leave. It's just something that everyone has to work around, just like the parents have to work around the childfree people taking holidays at odd times of the year.

What bugs me is when parents are automatically given priority; such as where I work, if anyone wants holiday time during the summer, parents get priority when it should be first come, first served. Before everyone starts jumping down my throat screaming, "But they have kids, so they should be allowed to take time off during the school holidays!" I get that. However, there are the 16 year olds who still live with their parents who take holidays during that time there, who end up being penalised cuz of that rule.

Also, not all parents, but some are very selfish when it comes to taking time off. Sometimes it's just not possible to give a person time off at short notice; I know you want to go to Little Suzie's school play or Little Johnny's football match, but you shouldn't just expect to get it with only a few days notice. And honestly, I have worked with people like that who expect everyone to jump to accomadate their various kiddie needs, but wouldn't even think of repaying the favour should a childfree person get a last minute concert ticket or something.

[guywithashovel]

(snip)

Nobody seems to mind if you take sick time, or vacation time, but the minute you take any sort of leave to care for a child...in my case, it was vacation time or a personal day, usually....everyone loses their shit because they want to act like we aren't entitled to it.

Most of the time, I actually came back at night to finish a job so I'd make my deadline. I'd save up leave and vacation time in case I neede it for my child. I asked for absolutely no favors.

(snip)

NOTE TO PEOPLE GETTING BADGERED ABOUT THEIR CHOICE TO REMAIN CHILDLESS: I feel your pain. You get it even when it's not your choice. Also, it doesn't end once you have a kid, either. I'm pushing 50 and morons STILL ask me when I'm having another one, if you can believe that. Stupid people do dearly love to ask some stupid questions.

This brings up another issue I have with this whole "Childless by Choice" movement (or ChildFree movement, whatever you want to call it). Many of them (well, maybe "many" is an exaggeration) want to belittle parents for taking leaves to take care of a kid, for getting tax breaks, for leaving work early to take a kid to the doctor, etc. I don't have kids, but I would never berate a parent for any of this. Parents have different needs than people without kids. Also, in case anyone's going to say, "Well, they should have known ahead of time and planned ahead," I would like someone to show me one incident where a young child approached his parent and said, "Okay, Mom, I'm going to come down with the flu at 9am next Tuesday; be ready." Also, if anyone thinks that time off from work to take care of a sick kid is actually "time off," that person needs a wake up call.

I know I probably sound like I'm just ruthlessly tearing into people in my own camp, but I just think a lot of these attitudes are unnecessary. Once again, my aunt Barb and uncle Lonnie have never had kids together, and my cousins Donna, Steve H, and Steve C have never had any kids with their spouses. They have never seen a reason to set themselves apart from the rest of the population because of their decisions. They just made their choices and then went quietly about their businesses.

[Boozy]

Congratulations on your very recent wedding!

In Ontario, each new parent (both the father and mother) is entitled to one full year of unpaid leave. Their companies need only hold their positions for when they return. They are, however, entitled to collect unemployment benefits for that 12 month period. Unemployment varies, but it works out to about 70% of what a parent would make if they were still working. Usually a year is about all one can afford to take off.

[MaggieTheCat]

This might be slightly off-topic, but I find it interesting...

I've known my husband for over 12 years. We've been dating for about 2 years. We got married about 3 weeks ago. Within the last 3 weeks, I've had several people ask me if we're trying/going to try to have children; before we got married, I'd never been asked except by my own parents. I just find it amusing that so many people have the mentality of "Oh, you're married now! So, are you going to have kids?" Thankfully, no one who has asked has been offended when I tell them we don't want children.

Also, I don't know how it works in every company, but where I used to work, mothers AND FATHERS were entitled to up to 12 weeks of "bonding leave" when they had a child. This was under federal family medical leave, and as such, it was UNpaid time off. If the parent(s) wanted paid time, they would have to use their own vacation time that they earned for being an employee of the company. And of course, that meant they couldn't take vacation (or at least, not as much of it) later on in the year. Most employees only get 2 weeks of vacation a year, so anyone who has a baby would normally take that full 2 weeks for when the baby is born, and take another 4-6 weeks after that unpaid. And then have no paid leave for the rest of the year. So it was far from a free ride for 6 or 8 weeks for new mothers or fathers.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Got news for everyone here who thinks I, or any coworkers I ever had with chidren, got favors from work because we had kids:

Nobody did any of us any favors. That time we took off? That was time we had earned....it's called "leave" and we are entitled to it as part of our benefits.

Nobody seems to mind if you take sick time, or vacation time, but the minute you take any sort of leave to care for a child...in my case, it was vacation time or a personal day, usually....everyone loses their shit because they want to act like we aren't entitled to it.

Most of the time, I actually came back at night to finish a job so I'd make my deadline. I'd save up leave and vacation time in case I neede it for my child. I asked for absolutely no favors.

Don't want to hear the bitching about "special favors' awarded parents. It's horsehit.

NOTE TO PEOPLE GETTING BADGERED ABOUT THEIR CHOICE TO REMAIN CHILDLESS: I feel your pain. You get it even when it's not your choice. Also, it doesn't end once you have a kid, either. I'm pushing 50 and morons STILL ask me when I'm having another one, if you can believe that. Stupid people do dearly love to ask some stupid questions.

[Boozy]

I'd agree with you, if we already weren't facing overpopulation.

So the development and education of the next generation of citizens shouldn't matter, since there are so many of them?

[violetyoshi]

To some extent, the childless need to be supportive of those who do decide to have children. A society cannot continue without people in it. In 30, 40, 50 years, the child-free person and their generation is going to be retired. The younger generation will be growing their food and delivering it to their neighbourhood stores, building their retirement homes, paving their roads, etc. Some cooperation is needed from everyone to ensure the continuation of society.

I don't necessarily agree with everything parents may ask for, but parental leave is important. When infants get plenty of one-on-one attention in their early years, the result is a smarter, healthier population. We all benefit from that.

Maybe one horrible day in the future we will all live in self-sufficient underground bunkers with robot servants. Until then, it's in our best interests to cooperate with those who raise the next generation.

I'd agree with you, if we already weren't facing overpopulation.