Childfree, Childless, etc.

[Boozy]

I am to understand that calling people "breeders" is not offensive because some people don't consider the word "retard" offensive. However that works out.

I don't understand where that statement fits into her overall argument either. Hopefully VY will clarify that for us when she has some time.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Fair enough, Boozy.

I did read the context of the original posts, and the "so it's not that offensive" is merely how the post in it's context came across to me. I wasn't trying to put words in her mouth, I was trying to illustrate how I interpreted it.

Unless I am misunderstanding, (and admittedly the "logic" ...such as it is...here is pretty confusing) I am to understand that calling people "breeders" is not offensive because some people don't consider the word "retard" offensive. However that works out.

I'm trying to grasp the point here, and the only thing I can come up with is the idea that since the word retard is not offensive, then neither is the word breeder.

Or something.

I dunno, man. Brain go boom.

[Boozy]

The first statment was (to paraphrase) that "people who use the word retard in a derogatory way need to die" and the second one was "some people don't consider the word retard a slur and so it's not that offensive"

Those statements have been so heavily paraphrased as to be incorrect. You have also taken them out of context.

Statement A reveals violetyoshi's opinion about those who use the word retard in a derogatory way (the "deserve to die" bit was possibly tongue-in-cheek; read the original thread to see the context of that statement).

Statement B simply states a fact: That SOME people don't consider the word "retard" a slur. Violetyoshi does not indicate that she is one of those people. As far as the last bit of the quote you attribute to her ("so it's not that offensive") -- you appear to be making that up entirely. The original statement, only one page back, is:

Most people don't find the term retard to be a slur either, just saying.

I'm not taking a stance either way on this issue, but fairness and honesty in debate are important. If you want to quote another member, please take the time to search and quote their exact words. Links to the threads in question are also helpful, since context is very important sometimes.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

The first statment was (to paraphrase) that "people who use the word retard in a derogatory way need to die" and the second one was "some people don't consider the word retard a slur and so it's not that offensive"

(Personally, I've never seen the word "retard" used in anything BUT a derogatory way, but hey, I am sure you have far more life experience than I do, so whatever. Maybe I dont' get out as much as you do. )

Not sure how fine we can split hairs on those two statments. They aren't different opinions on two different topics. They are different opinions on THE EXACT SAME TOPIC. They are even the same in their complete irrelevance to the topic at hand.

I get it, honey. Everyone is bound by the same rules of common courtesy, including not using offensive slurs on each other. Except you. You're exempt. When you do it, there's nothing wrong with it, because you are you.

I'm assuming you want to argue that it's because you can't be expected to know any better.

No hypocrisy there at all., right? But I think that's part ot the game.

I see what's going on here. It makes you feel important to derail ever single thread, even when the attention is negative. It's still attention, and that's all that really matters. Do I get it the cookie?

[violetyoshi]

People can have different perspectives on things given the topic. Because a person has a different opinion on one topic, that differs from an opinion they had on a completely different topic doesn't make them a hypocrite.

I'm sure if people watched everything you posted, as it seems some people on here are doing regarding me, you'd be found to be a hypocrite too.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

You should be proud of yourself because of what I am about to say: Words fail me.

I have no way of expressing the level of failure involved here. I'm trying, and the words are gone. Congratulations. You have rendered me unable to communicate my thoughts.

Yeah.

I had something in my head ready to go, and I've just totally changed my mind by that point in the thread. My thought processes just flatlined into a test tone and a slide of a color bar.

So how about your offensive stereotype of parents there, violetyoshi? Ever going to acknowledge your hypocrisy there?

You like to bet? I'm going with "no", just based on past experience here. Any suckers ...I mean...takers?

[guywithashovel]

It seems to be irrelevant to every topic. So I understand, I simply won't bring it up anymore.

Thing is, you seem to expect everyone to walk on pins and needles around you because of your autism/Asperger's Syndrome, yet you don't seem to want to extent any courtesy to anyone else for issues they might have or for choice they've made in their lives. You get up in arms if someone isn't catering to your condition the way you think they should, yet you have no objection to calling parents "breeders," and all because some parents are rude. I've been treated rudely by those of the female sex, but that doesn't give me an excuse to be mean to women and lump them all together. I've also encountered not-so-nice bus drivers, but that doesn't give me free reign to be unkind to all bus drives and stereotype them. As others have pointed out, respect is nice, and it should be given and expected. But it's also a two-way street.

I am not without my personal "issues," either. Here are some of the things I live with.

1. I have social anxiety.

2. I possibly have Asperger's.

3. I am missing my right testicle due to an infection I had "down there" when I was fifteen years old.

[DesignFox]

You know, it all comes down to respect. Just because I choose not to have kids doesn't make me any better or worse than the person who chooses TO have kids.

All the people who choose NOT to have kids should remember that A) they wouldn't be here if THEIR parents chose not to have kids and B) the rest of the species wouldn't continue if everyone else chose not to have kids.

Kids are a necessary part of our world. Anyone who can't deal with that needs to seriously get over themselves.

Life isn't fair. Some people will always be assholes. Some of those assholes will use their kids as an excuse to be assholes. If they didn't have kids, you can bet they'd find some other excuse to be an asshole.

So yea, as much as some people hate being questioned about their decision not to have kids...those people need also to respect the rest of the world who have chosen TO have kids. You know, the species as a whole kind of relies on people reproducing.

And violetyoshi, the term breeder is extremely offensive. That word implies that the person is indiscriminately reproducing like an animal.

Most people don't care to be described in such a manner. Especially since MOST people take the idea of having children and building a family very seriously and do their very best to raise good, upstanding members of society.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I'm all for parents having time off to look after a child, especially just after the child is born, it's an important bonding time, but I also think it needs to be reciprocal, other people without kids should still have access to the same amount of time off. I would have loved to have time off to get my dog, instead I had to wait until I had holidays so that I could have time with my puppy and I know people say it's not the same, but I'm still bonding with a living thing, that takes time.

Exactly that. I also am not saying that I resent maternity leave, or genuine emergancies; just parents who take the piss and skive off for minor issues but use the excuse "It's the kidddddieesss!" as if that excuses everything. -.-

Having a child that's seriously ill, badly injured, needing psychological care (my dad had to take quite a few days off in order to transport me to see the various psychiatrists etc that featured in my troubled teenage years), or is a baby and therefore needs priority; no-one is saying that parents have no right to time off for those things. In fact, it's expected and many collegues would be genuinely concerned about said parents' kids.

However, skiving off so that you can go out and saying it's cuz your kids are sick is BAD, just as it would be for a childfree person to phone in sick and go out. Magically inserting a "the kids are sick" instead of "I'm sick" does not make it alright, like some people seem to delude themselves with. Same goes for holidays. If you leave it til the last minute to try and bag some summer holiday time off, then don't get it; tough shit. Don't whine and cry about it, or try to force someone who got the time off to swap; you should have booked it earlier if it was that important to you.

Finally, the SC who seemed to think that just cuz I didn't have children, I didn't deserve to have time off over Christmas, deserves a mention. I admittedly used a cheap line to embarrass her after her thoughtless comment (I said I was infertile), but the comment itself was out of order. Just as some childfree people may consider themselves superior cuz they don't have kids, it works the other way, too. Some parents think they're superior and oh so clever for doing something that all creatures have been doing for millenia.

And for the record, I would never call a parent a "breeder". Did all these people who use that term spring to life from budding, or immaculate conception? Cuz otherwise, they're calling their parents breeders too. -.- Duh.

[JuniorMintz]

Most people don't find the term retard to be a slur either, just saying.

Backtracking the conversation a bit, remember that at some point in time, most people didn't have a problem with the words nigger, kike, gook, chink, etc etc, didn't find it to be a slur, either.

Just saying.

Also, since you appear to have *no* consideration to those of us with "differences" that offend you, I would suggest looking into the cost of living in that desert you were talking about earlier. Kids like sandboxes but deserts, not so much.

[the_std]

So how about your offensive stereotype of parents there, violetyoshi? Ever going to acknowledge your hypocrisy there?

[violetyoshi]

No. We want you to stop using your autism as an argument in a debate, and bringing it up as a point when it's completely irrelevant to the topic.

It seems to be irrelevant to every topic. So I understand, I simply won't bring it up anymore.

[Nyoibo]

Hey everyone, you want me to pretend I'm normal? Would everyone be happy if I ignored what is a major component of myself and my life?

Hands up everyone on this board with a mental/physical disability/disorder/problem that makes life harder.

I may be biased when it comes to time off for parents, but I'm all for it... up to a point. When you are responsible for the well being of another person, it only follows that you need to be around when they are ill. Sometimes otherwise planned-in-advance events happen suddenly. Sister's wedding, sudden divorce, turns-out-you-have-the-credits-after-all graduations. Not to mention a death in the family or house fire.

I'm all for parents having time off to look after a child, especially just after the child is born, it's an important bonding time, but I also think it needs to be reciprocal, other people without kids should still have access to the same amount of time off. I would have loved to have time off to get my dog, instead I had to wait until I had holidays so that I could have time with my puppy and I know people say it's not the same, but I'm still bonding with a living thing, that takes time.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

I may be biased when it comes to time off for parents, but I'm all for it... up to a point. When you are responsible for the well being of another person, it only follows that you need to be around when they are ill. Sometimes otherwise planned-in-advance events happen suddenly. Sister's wedding, sudden divorce, turns-out-you-have-the-credits-after-all graduations. Not to mention a death in the family or house fire.

People get time off for all sorts of things surprise or not. So when the shit inevitably happens to a child of a coworker, at least think of it as if the shit had happened to the coworker themselves 'cause it's the same idea in the end. Yeah, the system *could* be abused but that's only to be expected and we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that it's the abuser and not the abused that is to blame (100%).

By saying that people shouldn't have kids unless they have the luxury of being stay-at-home, part-time or shell out for a 24 hour nanny, your basically saying "only the privileged should reproduce". Which is tantamount to saying "Well, you don't have enough money to make things convenient for the world around you so you're not allowed to have this basic human right."

By all means, if some dick skips work at an hour's notice to 'see little Timmys t-ball game'. Hate him and do something or do nothing and forget it. If someone has to cash in all their vacation time and then some because their son is puking 3 times a day, losing weight at a rapid pace (starving) and too weak to stay awake for more than 4 hours a day... this still persisting since almost a month ago, cut them some slack and soldier on. Yeah, those are the extremes but giving up on stopping/allowing one for the sake of the other clearly isn't the solution.

Half the sentiments here seem to boil down to (including the OP main point) that 'insert group' seems to think that they are 'better/smarter/etc.' than everyone else because 'stupid reason'. Which applies to every possible group of people for a few important reasons:
-People like to be better than each other
-Al systems/rules are exploitable
-The Law of Large Numbers

Oh, and Violetyoshi, please refrain from throwing the Asperger's card into everything you comment on. As someone who is desperately trying to resist pulling my own free ticket for attention, your lack of control is disgustingly annoying.

P.S. [sarcasm]free cookies to anyone who can guess my condition![/sarcasm]

[guywithashovel]

Violetyoshi,

Initially, I wasn't going to say anything in response to your post about the things parents allegedly do, mainly because Pederson had already said everything I would have said, and I didn't think you needed to read it all twice. However, at this point, I would like to point out the fact that your post in many ways embodied the sentiment that I was thinking about when I first started this thread. And that sentiment is that the world should be parents vs childfree people. I started this thread because, for a while, it has appeared to me that a significant portion of the people who are active in the childfree communities have this attitude that they are superior to or smarter than people who have children. They may not say those things in that many words, but their words and actions communicate those messages. It seems that you have a very disparaging few of parents. In fact, judging from your other posts on this forum, you seem to have a very low opinion of pretty much everyone else in the world. It seems to me that you think that no one else could possibly understand the world as you do.

And calling parents "breeders" is pretty rude. Yes, they are "breeding" in the basic sense of the word, but the word "breeder" has negative connotations, and it's often said in a disparaging manner. Seeing as you expect everyone else to walk on eggshells around your Asperger's Syndrome, I don't think it's asking too much for you to be kind to other people's choices to have children.