Childfree, Childless, etc.

[Ree]

Hey everyone, you want me to pretend I'm normal? Would everyone be happy if I ignored what is a major component of myself and my life? You can say, I'm proud to be a parent, be Black, but if you suggest your not ashamed of being on the Autism spectrum, you'll be shamed into your place here.

No. We want you to stop using your autism as an argument in a debate, and bringing it up as a point when it's completely irrelevant to the topic.

[the_std]

You can say, I'm proud to be a parent, be Black, but if you suggest your not ashamed of being on the Autism spectrum, you'll be shamed into your place here.

Asking me to seperate my worldview from my position as having Asperger's Syndrome, is no different than suggesting someone should act White to please others, when being Black is a part of who they are, their culture, and their worldview.

... You have the balls to get all offended at that comment, when you just offended how many people with your stereotypes about parents? Really?

Ree merely pointed out that, in nearly every single thread on this board, no matter what the content, you always bring up the Asperger's. Yes, it gives you a different view on life, that's great, that's fine. But you harp on it constantly, as if it makes you special, as if it is, like Ree said, a medal.

There are many different people on this board. Gays, blacks, wiccans, along with a whole range of mental and physical disorders... That doesn't even begin to cover it. We are all different, and the ways we are different define how we see things. And yet no one else constantly brings it up and waves it around in the air, the way you do. You just want to turn everything into a thread about you, you, you. And you know what? I'm giving into your me-ism right now by replying to it.

So either respond about your offensive stereotype or suck it up.

[violetyoshi]

Hey everyone, you want me to pretend I'm normal? Would everyone be happy if I ignored what is a major component of myself and my life? You can say, I'm proud to be a parent, be Black, but if you suggest your not ashamed of being on the Autism spectrum, you'll be shamed into your place here.

Asking me to seperate my worldview from my position as having Asperger's Syndrome, is no different than suggesting someone should act White to please others, when being Black is a part of who they are, their culture, and their worldview.

Please, anyone want to teach me on how to pretend I'm Neurotypical. Seems that's what I'll have to do to be taken seriously here. Hide who I am.

[Ree]

I think called parents breeders is nice, considered the other attributes they have shown towards those who are childfree such as:

Refusing to acknowledge or validate them, because they don't have a child and must know nothing.

A tribal sense towards other parents, and acting as if non parents aren't a part of the tribe. Extremely immature, like a high school clique.

Behaving in ways that they would discipline their own child for behaving. Such as throwing tantrums when they don't get their way, as in "I have chilllllddrreeen!" when trying to get time off of work.

Also, behaving like small children themselves, and refusing to understand that being a parent means behaving like an adult. That most people aren't going to respond well to being talked down to like a child, or talking to someone who reacts to them like a frightened child when confronted. Such as in, looking at someone with big eyes as if they're a 3 year old about to break into tears. It's not appropriate as an adult, to use the manipulative tactics of a child to get what you want. Especially, if you don't tolerate the same behavior in your own child, because then you are a hypocrite.

Suggesting, they're giving in to their primal urges to breed, is the least of what's wrong with how parents behave. I am trying to be more tolerant of parents, and understanding.

It's funny parents will call those who are childfree selfish, or jerks. Yet parents display such traits much more frequently than people who are childfree. If anything, people who are childfree are frequently told that they must make way for parents and their children, and if they complain in the least that they're not understanding how hard it is to be a parent, and that they have no right to say anything.

Perhaps I don't want to be a parent, because I'd find myself associating, with the current generation of cliqueish parents. High school was bad enough, I don't want to have to return there, with the juvenile regressive behavior that these parents exhibit.

I haven't even started, on how people who are on the Autism spectrum are derided over behaviors they may not be able to control, while parents are given free reign to throw "meltdowns" and behave like children as well as "living in their own world".

Pardon me, but I have never read such a complete and utter pile of bullshit in my life.
I'm sorry if that is offensive, but your whole post offends me.

I am a parent, and I have NEVER behaved in the stereotypical manner that you have ascribed to me, and that you would suggest as much totally disgusts me.

Not only that, but you have once again managed to toss in the "I'm oh so special" autism angle that you seem to feel is relevant to every argument you make on this site.

We get it. You're autistic. If you would kindly tell us where to send your medal, then we will have one minted and sent to you post haste.
That way, you can pull it out and shine it up so the world can see it right away and not have to wait for you to toss it out there whenever you need to make a point in a debate.

Again, if that is offensive or over the line, I apologize, but you have done nothing but trash those of us who have chosen to have children as if we are public enemy #1, and I am offended at being lumped into your stereotype.

[Pedersen]

Wow... Just... wow... Can you possibly ignore the point of the question any more thoroughly? I show exactly why what you are doing is wrong, I show how wrong it is, I ask for you to justify using a slur against another group, and you entire reply is "Well, one of those examples isn't considered a slur by most people" ???

Really? Is that all you can say? I expected something that at least pretended to have some mild amount of substance.

What a waste.

ETA: You really posted this remark? And that was after posting your reply above (let's see, above was at 3:13pm my time, the quoted below was at 3:15pm my time, so yeah, posted above first, and then posted this)?

I believe people who use retard in a derogatory way deserve to die. You don't like that people have differences, then move to the desert and live by yourself as a hermit.

You should be proud of yourself because of what I am about to say: Words fail me.

I have no way of expressing the level of failure involved here. I'm trying, and the words are gone. Congratulations. You have rendered me unable to communicate my thoughts.

[violetyoshi]

Just like it's okay to call black people niggers, since some of them fit the stereotypes. Same for calling Jewish people kykes, Hispanics spics, Italians guidos, Autistics retards, etc, etc, etc.

It's a slur to call any of those groups any of those names, even if some members of those groups fit the stereotypes.

By your logic, it's perfectly acceptable to paint a group (parents) with a slur (breeder) on the grounds that some members of that group exhibit behaviors that others in other groups find reprehensible. So, with your logic, please tell me why any of the other slurs I mentioned above are unacceptable, but breeder is fine?

No, I don't have kids. Never will. But that doesn't change the fact that the behavior you are advocating is wrong. I'm hoping that by having used those words above, I'll help to drive home the point of what you are doing.

Most people don't find the term retard to be a slur either, just saying.

[Pedersen]

I think called parents breeders is nice, considered the other attributes they have shown towards those who are childfree such as:

Just like it's okay to call black people niggers, since some of them fit the stereotypes. Same for calling Jewish people kykes, Hispanics spics, Italians guidos, Autistics retards, etc, etc, etc.

It's a slur to call any of those groups any of those names, even if some members of those groups fit the stereotypes.

By your logic, it's perfectly acceptable to paint a group (parents) with a slur (breeder) on the grounds that some members of that group exhibit behaviors that others in other groups find reprehensible. So, with your logic, please tell me why any of the other slurs I mentioned above are unacceptable, but breeder is fine?

No, I don't have kids. Never will. But that doesn't change the fact that the behavior you are advocating is wrong. I'm hoping that by having used those words above, I'll help to drive home the point of what you are doing.

[violetyoshi]

Thank you!

The call center I used to work for was really good about being impartial when it came to things like holiday shifts and shift changes. It was always first come, first serve, with no consideration for circumstances outside of the job (like what an employee's family structure looked like.) If someone was working an afternoon shift and wanted to work an earlier shift, they could put in a request for it. If a first shift spot opened up, the person who put their shift request in first got first dibs. I did interviewing and I got a lot of people who would come in and say "Oh, I have to work 8-4 because my kids are in daycare and it closes at 4:30 so I can't work evenings." I'd tell them, "Then I'm afraid this position is not for you." and that was that.

Once we hired a single mother who wanted a morning shift but took an evening shift since that's all we had open. A few weeks after we hired her, we had a first shift spot open up, but she didn't get it, because there were other (more senior) agents who had been on the wait-list for a first shift position since before she was even hired. She got PISSED and told the manager right out, "It isn't FAIR to see these other people getting MY shift!" Yeah, she thought it was HER shift, and her whole reason for wanting first shift was because of her kids. I get that it's frustrating and that parents would prefer to work mornings but it doesn't always work that way! That woman didn't make it much longer within our company before she got let go for a variety of reasons.

This is a situation, where I would suggest to ask the mother if she would tolerate her child yelling something was theirs before they had it. Such as seeing a toy in the store and saying, "That's MY toy!" and pouting at her until she either got it or disciplined her child.

If she would discipline her child for that, then she should be asked, "So if you wouldn't tolerate your child behaving that way, why are you behaving that way yourself? Having a child doesn't mean your entitled to behave like a child yourself."

As I have thought more about this, I have realized that I have been considering this based on my own experiences. I probably shouldn't have jumped to the conclusion that because something is a certain way for me, then that's the way it probably is for everyone. Sorry.

It's just that overall, the childfree movement sometimes gets to me, even though I am technically one of them. It just seems to me that more than a few of them---though certainly not all of them---try to create this world that is parents vs non-parents. Then again, maybe some of them live in communities or families where they take a lot of grief for their decisions. I think anyone who would call someone souless or immature for not having kids is a jerk. But I also think that those in the childfree community who call parents "breeders" aren't very nice, either.

I think called parents breeders is nice, considered the other attributes they have shown towards those who are childfree such as:

Refusing to acknowledge or validate them, because they don't have a child and must know nothing.

A tribal sense towards other parents, and acting as if non parents aren't a part of the tribe. Extremely immature, like a high school clique.

Behaving in ways that they would discipline their own child for behaving. Such as throwing tantrums when they don't get their way, as in "I have chilllllddrreeen!" when trying to get time off of work.

Also, behaving like small children themselves, and refusing to understand that being a parent means behaving like an adult. That most people aren't going to respond well to being talked down to like a child, or talking to someone who reacts to them like a frightened child when confronted. Such as in, looking at someone with big eyes as if they're a 3 year old about to break into tears. It's not appropriate as an adult, to use the manipulative tactics of a child to get what you want. Especially, if you don't tolerate the same behavior in your own child, because then you are a hypocrite.

Suggesting, they're giving in to their primal urges to breed, is the least of what's wrong with how parents behave. I am trying to be more tolerant of parents, and understanding.

It's funny parents will call those who are childfree selfish, or jerks. Yet parents display such traits much more frequently than people who are childfree. If anything, people who are childfree are frequently told that they must make way for parents and their children, and if they complain in the least that they're not understanding how hard it is to be a parent, and that they have no right to say anything.

Perhaps I don't want to be a parent, because I'd find myself associating, with the current generation of cliqueish parents. High school was bad enough, I don't want to have to return there, with the juvenile regressive behavior that these parents exhibit.

I haven't even started, on how people who are on the Autism spectrum are derided over behaviors they may not be able to control, while parents are given free reign to throw "meltdowns" and behave like children as well as "living in their own world".

[guywithashovel]

As I have thought more about this, I have realized that I have been considering this based on my own experiences. I probably shouldn't have jumped to the conclusion that because something is a certain way for me, then that's the way it probably is for everyone. Sorry.

It's just that overall, the childfree movement sometimes gets to me, even though I am technically one of them. It just seems to me that more than a few of them---though certainly not all of them---try to create this world that is parents vs non-parents. Then again, maybe some of them live in communities or families where they take a lot of grief for their decisions. I think anyone who would call someone souless or immature for not having kids is a jerk. But I also think that those in the childfree community who call parents "breeders" aren't very nice, either.

[Teysa]

I don't have any children and don't particularly want any either. One of the reasons I stoppped being a substitute teacher was the fact that I didn't want to go to prison for throttling the little darlings. That's also why I've chosen not to pursue a career in teaching. If dealing with kids for a few hours a day got on my nerves, I shudder to think how annoying I'd find my own. Much safer for everyone if I just don't have any.

That being said, I don't think of myself as being childless or childfree when I think of it at all. I get the occasional 'do you have any kids?' from coworkers. When I say 'no', they usually just say something like 'that's nice' or change the subject. I've never had anyone make a big deal about it.

I do get the 'when are you going to give us grandkids?' speech from the parents sometimes. I shut my dad up about it though when I told him I'd give him grandkids when he paid the adoption fees. (Hubby is infertile so even if I did want kids I couldn't have them. Guess it's just as well that I don't want them).

[Lace Neil Singer]

I don't think it's trendy or novel to be childfree; more refusing to do something that's only going to end in utter disaster.

I'd be a terrible mother, so I choose not to have any. End of.

[AdminAssistant]

Mm-hmm. In my hometown, I am a novelty. Why? I'm in my mid-twenties, single, no children, and I'm a woman getting a post-graduate education AND I actually moved the hell out of there.

The more routine trend is: get married right after high school, go to college, maybe graduate, if you do, it has to be early education. Teach school, have kids. Heaven forbid you actually move out of the area.

Seriously, there is apparently a rumor going around down there that I must be a lesbian, since I haven't got married yet or had any kids.

[Ree]

While the childfree by choice issue is an interesting one, and one which has certainly been discussed numerous times, especially on this forum, I think many of the people who commented missed the actual point of this thread.

Once again, it became an analysis and debate about the childfree issue, pros and cons, and even more condemnation of parents getting perks or using their children for perks, when in actual fact, I believe the point of this thread was that the OP has an issue with people who think their decision not to have children is trendy and novel, even though people have been doing it for years.

I come from a big Catholic family, and a large, predominately Catholic community, where anything less than 5 kids was a novelty.

People who didn't have children didn't do so by choice, but because they were infertile, or so it was thought.
I am thinking a few of them probably made a decision not to have children, but it was easier to let people think it was because they couldn't have them, rather than try to defend their choice not to have them.

[protege]

Can't forget to mention Ms "But my kids are sickkk!", who's kids mysteriously got ill every Friday, meaning that their mother had to take every weekend off. She didn't get away with that for long, and then she whined, "But you're discriminating against mothers!" Since the manager who told her off was also a mother, that didn't go down too well. XD

At least she got put in her place We once had a woman who did that where I work. Every Monday or Friday, it seemed, her kids were always "sick." After several months of that, my boss finally told her "if you're going to constantly take days off, you're going to have to deal with this...or find another job."

Since she was hourly, the only person she was really hurting...was herself. Still, it did piss off the rest of us, who got stuck doing her work.

[pile of monkeys]

There seems to be this sentiment among many of these people that they are doing something new and trend-setting that no one else has ever done before. In other words, many of them appear to think that willfully living your life as a childless married couple is something that people just started doing within the last ten years, when in fact, people have been doing it ever since contraception was invented.

For me, it's not so much that it's never been done before, it's just that in a more traditional past, voluntarily not having children is something that was looked upon with suspicion. A woman who physically couldn't have children was pitied, but one who chose not to was vilified. It's only relatively recently that society, as a whole, as opposed to individuals or specific families, has begun to realize that this is a choice just like any other and doesn't reflect poorly on the character of those making the choice.

I have no children, by very deliberate choice, so I feel "childless" isn't the most accurate term to describe me, as it has connotations of those who want them but can't have them. "Childfree" is more accurate, but somewhat awkward in conversation, so I usually go with "don't have 'em, don't want 'em."

And I envy those of you who have worked in environments where parents have received no special privileges simply due to being parents. I've had more than one job where people were allowed to leave early, come in late, take time off, spend entire shifts on the phone on personal business- all acceptable as long as it was in relation to their children somehow, and all without having to use any kind of "time" (vacation, personal, sick, etc.). Managers with children were far more lenient with parents, people without kids had their vacation days declined because people "with families" needed holidays off more, etc. Again, I'm not saying this happens everywhere, but I have witnessed it firsthand, more than once, in jobs that I've had, so it is my experience that parents receive preference simply for being parents.

And that's foremost among the reasons why I'm defensive about my choice. That and being called selfish, immature, soulless (no, really), not a "real" woman, being told I'll change my mind, that my marriage is a sham unless children result from it, that my opinions on things not even remotely child-related aren't valid because I'm not a parent, etc. It's been pointed out that people don't think people who choose to have kids are subjected to this sort of thing, but again- I've gotten it firsthand. It could be a function of my geography, social circle, peer group, career industry, whatever. But it does exist, and it's annoying as all hell.