that everything with a docking station is proprietary

[jackfaire]

iTunes is built in to the Mac OS, as Windows Media Player is on Windows.

My point was that it would be better for there not to be a middle man program at all, which both of those are. If you have no middleman program, then that increases the chance of universal usability.

If I want to convert songs FROM iTunes to another program I cannot nor can it share songs with another program. Windows Media Player doesn't lock down songs like that I can use them in multiple programs say for example my MP3 player comes with a program of it's own.

And if my MP3 player dies I am not stuck having to go back and buy another one from the same company if there is a better MP3 released by a different company.

If I had itunes and an ipod I would be perpetually stuck using the same program and same company's player.

[RootedPhoenix]

And windows media player is part of windows it's built in to the OS-itunes forces you to have both itunes and quicktime-I never used QT ever but still had to have it or itunes didn't work at all-you can't get them as separate programs-so for the few websites that use QT I can't use them as I'm not filling my computer up with bloatware.

iTunes is built in to the Mac OS, as Windows Media Player is on Windows.

My point was that it would be better for there not to be a middle man program at all, which both of those are. If you have no middleman program, then that increases the chance of universal usability.

[Dreamstalker]

At the same time, how is Apple to know every vulnerability of an OS that isn't theirs?

Didn't they actually create a vulnerability by trying to force an install of Safari on Windows boxen?

Except that you just said you had to have Windows Media Player or the MP3 player's proprietary software. That's a limit to me.

Exactly. I've had enough secondhand experience with iTunes to know that I don't like it (and even my mom's getting fed up).

[BlaqueKatt]

Except that you just said you had to have Windows Media Player or the MP3 player's proprietary software. That's a limit to me.

And windows media player is part of windows it's built in to the OS-itunes forces you to have both itunes and quicktime-I never used QT ever but still had to have it or itunes didn't work at all-you can't get them as separate programs-so for the few websites that use QT I can't use them as I'm not filling my computer up with bloatware.

As far as the original topic about docking stations....are there adapters of any kind? Like, say, an iPod connection to micro USB connection..or something?

no because apple won't allow it-their dock connector is proprietary so they won't license another company to make an adapter-they're trying to bully consumers into buying their product.

[HYHYBT]

"it killed the ipod not sure where you pulled "killed computer" from"
I got it from misreading your post Sorry about that.

[RootedPhoenix]

Apple's PR reply to shipping ipods with windows viruses:

“As you might imagine, we are upset at Windows for not being more hardy against such viruses,” said Apple, “and even more upset with ourselves for not catching it.” Even to fans of Apple and the Mac OS, the sub-text was obvious: ‘it’s only because we accommodate PC users that we have to deal with these sorts of Windows-only problems,’ Apple seemed to be saying, ‘but yeah, it’s partially our fault, too.’

IMO, you've bolded the wrong bit. You've skipped over the fact that they said that they were more upset with themselves about it. As in they were upset that such a thing had occurred at all, and that it was their fault. Virus vulnerabilities don't only happen in the programs or OSes of any one company. At the same time, how is Apple to know every vulnerability of an OS that isn't theirs?

If Microsoft Office for Mac caused problems with my computer due to a virus, it wouldn't only be Microsoft's fault. My computer's OS was made by Apple, a totally different company, and it has virus vulnerabilities too.

I'm not limited to using one specific "store" or program to transfer music-I like that. I didn't have to install anything on my computer-it "just worked" right out of the box with WMP which was already on my computer-it did come with software, which I eventually installed-but wasn't forced to.

Except that you just said you had to have Windows Media Player or the MP3 player's proprietary software. That's a limit to me.

By the same reasoning, I could say that your MP3 player was awful, because I'd have to download something I don't already have. iTunes is on my computer already, so I guess that makes iTunes better, right?

Except that it doesn't. I'd just as soon go out and get an MP3 player that had no middleman program at all. SD cards are a lovely feature, which iPods don't have. Expandability is awesome.

The reason I bought my last iPod is that I knew I liked iTunes, I didn't want my music spread across a dozen SD cards that I personally would lose in 2.5 seconds (I have a ton of music, and I lose things easily), and I liked my previous iPod a great deal.

Nobody else should be pushed to choose as I did, when they don't need what I do.

As far as the original topic about docking stations....are there adapters of any kind? Like, say, an iPod connection to micro USB connection..or something? Would such a thing even help? It does seem terribly stupid of them not to try to at least put out an adapter of some kind when they know what the next biggest section of the market is using. Even if 70% of everyone uses an iPod, you can't just ignore the other 30%. Don't these people want to sell as much as they can?

[BlaqueKatt]

How does a firmware update kill a computer?

it killed the ipod not sure where you pulled "killed computer" from-just like some of the firmware updates are killing iphones. I had a perfectly functioning 3g ipod-itunes automatically updated the firmware and bricked it-one of my friends hooked it up to his mac to try and fix it-it read as a 999GB hd-he scoured the mac forums and found out it was a "known issue" but apple figured it didn't need to be addressed/fixed as the affected users were offered 10% off a new ipod video.

[Dreamstalker]

Apparently in the greater Kansas City Metro area, because that's where I've run into it the most. "Oh, you have a PC? I don't understand why anyone uses a PC. I have a Mac. Macs are just so user-friendly. Bill Gates is a wanna-be crook. Windows is for stupid people. I can't believe you didn't get an IPod!" blah blah blah

the main reason why I don't by Apple products? They're more expensive. Always

Yup. A friend was going to get a mac, but saw the light when pricing things out...not only would the computer itself be 3x more expensive, she would need to buy all new peripherals.

I run into the Apple-snobbery in Boston as well, my little town in particular (of course, here you'll see Mummy buying an eight-year-old an ipod, so...snobbery in general abounds, but the Apple fans tend to be more rabid about it).

There was actually a small rash of robberies/iPod thefts where the perp(s) would go after people with the distinctive Apple headphones.

I've worked on macs and don't like them much...proprietariness(?) (my standard software toolkit doesn't work at all on macs) and if anything inside goes wrong there's not really anything that can be done short of shipping it back. Typically when people here call a computer tech they want stuff fixed zomgrightnao.

[HYHYBT]

I'm sorry to hear that the residents of Kansas City are so rude

How does a firmware update kill a computer?

Mostly I don't care what anyone else uses so long as they let me use mine. The closest I'll get to "snobby" is for the few people who've asked me what they should get, then gotten something else and wanted my help when they had trouble with it. Yes, I'm sure it's just as easy to (whatever) in Windows, but since I don't *use* Windows it will take me longer to find where and how to do it.

Though I was particularly annoyed with Dad's laptop; couldn't get the wireless going for anything. Turns out it has a tiny, unmarked, physical switch that you'd never notice, hidden on the bottom corner. It never occurred to me that there would be such a thing because I'm used to the on-off "switch" being in the menu bar. But I'm sure that someone going the other direction would turn my Macbook every which direction looking for the switch and be confused at its turning out to be the windshield-wiper-symbol-looking thing next to the clock, so we're even.

[BlaqueKatt]

I suggest you do some research before you go for the hype.

I had one-apple "bricked it " with a firmware update-and because it wasn't working(due to their update), I could only get 10% off a new one in trade. I'm not limited to using one specific "store" or program to transfer music-I like that. I didn't have to install anything on my computer-it "just worked" right out of the box with WMP which was already on my computer-it did come with software, which I eventually installed-but wasn't forced to.


where is the "attitude" of mac users?

Try here

and here

"I’m one of those “smug” people. So what? Why should I apologize for having a better system than the schlubs out there too cheap and ignorant to get anything better? Was the virus thing a PR goof.. only if it was false… which it wasn’t. Windows is an open sore. I know it, you know it, we all scream. There is no ice cream. Here’s a parable: I went to France for the first time a few years ago and after hearing story upon story how they were arrogant, I found them to be nice people who are just really into their culture and want to keep it from being diluted. The same thing can be said for Apple. But some people will just complain and complain about not having a cheeseburger on the Eiffel Tower. Nice tangent huh.. My point is this: I love my Macbook. It’s just plain better. Apple.. stay the course. Microsoft’s lack of quality control (not to mention a new OS) will have people coming your way soon enough.

This was in reference to Apple's shipping ipods with a windows virus(small amout but they blamed MS not themselves.

Apple's PR reply to shipping ipods with windows viruses:

“As you might imagine, we are upset at Windows for not being more hardy against such viruses,” said Apple, “and even more upset with ourselves for not catching it.” Even to fans of Apple and the Mac OS, the sub-text was obvious: ‘it’s only because we accommodate PC users that we have to deal with these sorts of Windows-only problems,’ Apple seemed to be saying, ‘but yeah, it’s partially our fault, too.’

[Cat]

I converted to the church of mac when I started dating my bf. Never had a major issue with my lappy, my 2 iPods, or iTunes. My PC crashed regularly (what do you expect from Dell??)

And yea, I've noticed more attitude from Windows peeps....and I am dreading when we get Windows 7 at work.

The only time my mac give me attitude is when I try to run a Windows emulator (for when I work from home.)

[jackfaire]

I have a feeling that people who like Vista are those that learned how to use it properly and take advantage of all the features. I never did that, so I don't like it much.

*shrugs* I don't know. Honestly computers have always been intuitive for me. Which is great because I work in a call center and most of my work is on the computer.

But on topic I can understand the docking station frustration me I just put a pair of computer speakers in my bathroom for people to hook their MP3s in to.

[Boozy]

I have a feeling that people who like Vista are those that learned how to use it properly and take advantage of all the features. I never did that, so I don't like it much.

[jackfaire]

Meh I get attitude from people that hated Vista when I love it people give crud.

[Fashion Lad!]

What is this "attitude" that Apple users supposedly have, and why have I not run into it in my everyday life at all?

I'd like to know that too...

I have a Mac and two iPods. Have I ever degraded anyone for not owning the same as me? I run Windows 7 on my Macbook, as well as Windows Server 2008 (for class) I have a laptop running Vista. I have a desktop running XP and I just built a desktop that's running Windows 7 Professional.

People know the market when they're buying an mp3 player anymore. If I'm going to make docking stations for mp3 players, I'm going with 70% of the market. What's nice about the iPod is that no matter which one I own (for the most part) one docking station is going to take care of them all. Beautiful!

In my class, I get hassled everyday for my MacBook by Windows users. Ugh! Windows users attitude is just snobby.