that everything with a docking station is proprietary

[Dreamstalker]

While I'd love an actual docking station, I'm not enamored of the idea enough to futz with multiple adapters/gender changers to get it to work (the result would also be too unwieldy and defeat the original purpose of a dock). So I got a $10 "cellphone beanbag chair" from ThinkGeek so it can sit upright and still be connected to the computer/speakers/whatever.

[MergedLoki]

I hear ya. I have a sony mp3 player with just a USB plug in. and it works fine. no additional software needed to load it up with songs etc.

but... I cannot find a friggin pair of portable speakers/docking station that just works with a simple USB jack.

OR the ones i've found are disgustingly expensive and i don't need em that badly lol.

but yea everythigns catered to ipod this and apple that.

[HYHYBT]

Not sure of that, either: when I first got an iPod, I kept it hidden. Not because I was afraid it would be stolen, but because I thought people would think I'd gotten it for show. I actually *like* iTunes best, though admittedly I haven't bothered trying anything else lately. I'd been using iTunes regularly for a couple of years before they started selling music through it, and used to connect my laptop to the car's cassette deck. The only reason I originally got a separate music player was that my then-new car had slicker seats than the old one; every time I hit the brakes, my computer hit the floor, which didn't seem like a recipe for its having a long life. And since I already liked both Apple's computers and their music software, I probably would have looked at their music player first even if I *hadn't* already also bought protected music, which I couldn't have played on anything else without burning it to CD, reimporting it, and then filling in all the track names, etc manually.

Which also relates to the original point of the thread: sure, they benefit from all the iPod accessories being useless with other mp3 players, but then even leaving that out there are good reasons for not using, say, a standard USB plug. When iPods first came out, USB was too slow, and Firewire plugs are too thick. For that matter, I don't *think* they had the mini USB plugs then either, so the B plug would have been thicker than what it was connecting even if it had been fast enough to use. And of course even if you ignore that the proprietary plug helps lock out competition, at this point a lot of iPods are bought by repeat customers, and making the new products incompatible with the accessories those customers already have discourages upgrading.

(This is also why I haven't bought Snow Leopard: it only works on Intel Macs, and even if it were free, the fairly minor improvements to my laptop would be outweighed by not being able to keep the same software on it and the two G4 desktops in the family.)

[tabbyblack13]

I have a Sansa Fuze and before that I had another Sansa. These units have worked well for me and withstands a lot of abuse. What I don't get is why ipod is so much better. I know that when the Ipod first came out it was the most durable and reliable mp3 player out there. Now a lot of other companies have come out with dependable units.

Right now I think that anything Ipod related is mostly for show and you can get a reliable mp3 player for less.

[BrenDAnn]

I know it's awkward to revive a thread buried 3 pages into a forum, but I have to speak out on this. I myself have a 2GB Sansa Fuse, which I have expanded with an 8 GB Micro SD card. I got the player as a gift for my oldest nephew, but his maternal grandparents got him a better one before I could give it to him, so I kept it. I have to say I love, love, LOVE my mp3 player! As for iTunes/DRM issues, no problems there as I have a protected music converter program installed on my computer that changes all the songs to mp3s. Yes, I had to download the program (and pay), but it was well worth it. Also, if you go to amazon.com and type in <<insert name of your mp3 player here>> accessories, you'd be surprised the results you'll get. I was never impressed by iPods, but I'd never be a snob and tell someone not to get one either. Guess I'm just that type of person.

[Boozy]

*sigh* Taking a part of my post out of context is bad form.

If I took part of your post out of context, it was merely a misunderstanding. I guess I failed to understand your point.

I get it now, since you've expounded a bit.

[lordlundar]

*sigh* Taking a part of my post out of context is bad form. I know the attack ads exist, I know it's not anything new, and I know it's about getting larger market share, but my point isn't that. It's that they have been bashing Windows for years, even insulting it when there's a fuck up of their own doing, yet when Microsoft fires back in a non-stupid way, they bitch and whine and threaten legal action. Not being able to take even a tiny bit of what they dish out.

It's the double standard that they are exhibiting that I have the issue with.

[Boozy]

When, since the "think different" ads of theirs, have you seen an Apple ad that didn't insult PC (ie Windows) users?

"Attack ads" are to be expected by any company whose product is positioned second in the market. You see this kind of thing with most companies who dominate the one/two positions. The best example would be the Cola Wars of the 1980's between Pepsi and Coke. Pepsi had second-place market share in the US, so their ads attacked Coke.

Since the vast majority of the market belongs to PC/Windows users, Apple needs to make a case for its product by making favourable comparisons to the leading product. There aren't enough new users out there to ensure profitability. They need to convince people to switch.

And then there's the fact that computers are different than say, laundry soap. Let's say Tide holds the number one spot, and Sunlight number two. Sunlight could convince people to switch brands with nothing more than a coupon. Laundry soap is cheap, is not a long-term commitment, and there's no learning curve. One soap is used the same as the other. Not so with computers. It means that the advertising needs to be far more pointed.

[muses_nightmare]

Don't the Mac ads generally lump PC users together as the "boring, business related" crew? Whereas the Macs are the cool people with their video editing software etc.

Kind of the whole point of the ads, calling anyone who runs windows a moron for doing it.

[HYHYBT]

When, since the "think different" ads of theirs, have you seen an Apple ad that didn't insult PC (ie Windows) users?

There might be some for all I know, but I've never once seen an Apple ad that insulted PC users. Systems, yes.

[lordlundar]

IMO, you've bolded the wrong bit. You've skipped over the fact that they said that they were more upset with themselves about it. As in they were upset that such a thing had occurred at all, and that it was their fault.

And yet, as opposed to accepting full responsibility for their own screw up (because these were infected at the time they left the distributor), they go and throw an insult to Microsoft first. Guess they can't help themselves, after all, they're apple, it can't be totally their fault, huh?

That's the main issue I have with Apple and a number of users. It's not enough to have the product, they have to bash the competitor every step of the way. When, since the "think different" ads of theirs, have you seen an Apple ad that didn't insult PC (ie Windows) users? Yet, when Microsoft fires back in an ad that hits them in a spot they can't refute, they start screaming? So if Apple bashes Windows systems for years, it's funny, but when Microsoft finally retaliates, it's offensive? Right, hypocrisy noted.

[Boozy]

And I know you're argument is going to be about just finding smugness. However; when I asked where is the smugness, I meant "how are Mac users anymore smug than windows or Linux users?"

You're right; if someone wants to be smug, they'll find a reason. If they happen to like Apple, then that's what they'll focus on. Same is true of PC users.

The whole thing is baffling to me. My iPod is not a symbol of how "cool" I am. It can't be. The only thing required of me to obtain that iPod was to work a few hours at my retail job and then exchange the money earned for goods and services. This is not the hallmark of awesome. There is nothing devastatingly cool about this transaction.

My purchases say nothing about me as a person, and I'm annoyed when someone assumes me to be smug because of something I own. I'm just as annoyed when someone thinks I'm cool because of something I own. (If some hipster saw the music selection on my iPod, they would be horrified. )

[muses_nightmare]

I personally find that some Mac users insist on bashing on Windows whenever they get a chance. One of my instructors even said something along the lines of "macs are prettier", I disagreed verbally and he was kind of like "oh they're not are they?"

I don't actually think that Macs are prettier, Personally my little compact acer is prettier (given my monitor is a hunk of junk) and I really really want one of the gorgeous touch screen computers they're coming out with lately. I also find that things like the keyboard and mouse on macs try to be "compact", we use these really flat keyboards in most of my classes and I find them damn near impossible to type on because they're not made for adult sized hands.

I use both systems at school (I think that they use XP at the school, and I have no idea what Mac OS they use), I have vista on my home computer, my boyfriend has Windows 7 on his. I can say that I prefer Windows, since I find that the Macs at school have more problems with freezing, randomly not booting up etc.

All that being said, I own an Ipod. The thing is 3 years old at least now. It's one of the 30g video ones. I bought it because at the time in my town there weren't really a lot of options for that size. I did have a sony Jellybean, but it was a 1g, and really who can fit anything onto 1g! I do rather like my ipod, but I don't know if I'd buy another one when I do have to replace it. I've heard that the batteries aren't supposed to be good past 2 years or something like that, but mine's still going strong, well it doesn't last quite as long as it used to, but it goes for a good few hours.

[Fashion Lad!]

where is the "attitude" of mac users?

Try here

and [URL="http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/articles/comments/editorial-apple-smugness-and-you/"]here[/

It really is on both sides. Like I said, I personally get flack for owning a Mac. Apparently Windows is **SO** much better. I like Windows just fine. I'm loving Windows 7. But, I always have to laugh when my MacBook Pro is on hour 6 of battery life with usually 1-2 hours left and my classmates have already had to have their laptops plugged in for most of the class. I also like the fact that it takes my laptop about 30 seconds to go from completely powered down to completely up and running waiting for my first program to be started. Takes about 15 seconds for it to shut down. Mac OS X is a lean, mean OS.

But, don't be naive in thinking that all Mac users are smug and we're the only ones degrading anyone for owning anything other than a Mac because that's just flat out not true.

And I know you're argument is going to be about just finding smugness. However; when I asked where is the smugness, I meant "how are Mac users anymore smug than windows or Linux users?"

[HYHYBT]

Only if you bought DRM'ed music from the iTunes store. It *will* convert anything else.