"Graphic Designers"

[muses_nightmare]

Now to clarify, I have no problem with people who have worked their way into the industry despite not being formally educated. I do however have a problem with these teenagers etc. that seem to think grapic design is nothing more than making pretty pictures in photoshop. Most of them have no knowledge of either of the other standard programs (illustrator and InDesign), nor do they have any knowledge of typography, or anything else.

It's these people that think buying Photoshop makes them a designer. These are the people that will design a logo in RGB, raster and not understand why it looks horrible printed and scaled up.

I get that there are people who have made it in the industry without the education, but nowadays that's getting harder and harder, especially if one doesn't understand the basics of the design industry. Hell if you don't understand the basics of image quality you're hooped.

I don't want to sound like those snobby over-educated "designers" out there, but it annoys me that I'm putting out $35 000 for tuition, to learn skills and develop a portfolio and there are people out there who think they can just call themselves a designer with practically no knowledge of design.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Oh, geeze, thank you.

The suckiest part of all this is that clients don't know the difference about half the time. You can be great, you can suck. end of the day, doesn't matter much.

I used to think there was a huge overpopulation of shitty designers (and there pretty much is), but frankly now, knowing what I know, I have to say that the problem isn't shitty designers, it's shitty clients who prefer creative to look like dogshit.

And they are probably trained to think dogshit looks great by the fact that every 12 year old thinks owing a pirated copy of Adobe Creative Suite makes them into a pro.

I used to have legions of people "who did design on the side" come to me for advice or to show me their creative. Some of them had some talent. Most did not. They simply think that if they throw enough Photoshop filter effects on there, their stuff looks wonderful. They would come to my desk so that I could teach them to be a better designer when all they really want to know is how to do more Stupid Photoshop Tricks. When I gave them an assignment to design a flyer using one photo or graphic, no more than two fonts, and no more than two colors, and no effects whatsoever' I would almost never hear from them again. When instead of suggesting which Photoshop or Illustrator books to get to learn more advanced stuff, I suggested some design books to study, they didn't really want to hear that.

Okay. Just put more tits on it, throw a glow and a drop shadow on there and call it a day. What the hell do you want from me. Oh, and more fonts. More is better. I guess I'd know that if I had real talent.

I feel your pain.

Illustrator is not a "sexy" program, and it is a pain in the ass to master. I couldn't even get my own boss to learn it, and he REALLY NEEDED to learn it. Let's face it, it can be persnickety. It also is absolutely crucial. InDesign or Quark...well, if you can't do page layout, you're kind of dead in the water. And if you are doing it in Photoshop you need to be kicked in the balls.

[muses_nightmare]

InDesign pisses me off to no end, and I swear the guys at Adobe make things difficult for their own amusement. Working between Illustrator and InDesign makes my head want to implode, and those are basically the main things I work with.

In my last Typography class we had to learn how to do page layouts and grid structures manually in Illustrator. We didn't even get into InDesign until this quarter. I designed an 8 spread saddle stiched booklet in Illustrator, because I apparently like to do things the hardest possible way. Never again. :P

Once I got the hang of Illustrator it was fine, but going between CS3 (at school) and CS4 at home just sucks. It also took me like a week to figure out how to export an InDesign document in CS4 to CS3, because you know, unlike the other adobe progams there's no save as CS3 option.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I designed an 8 spread saddle stiched booklet in Illustrator, because I apparently like to do things the hardest possible way. Never again. :P

Ouch! When I got to my last job, (a cable company) they were doing a thirty page user guide in Photoshop. InDesign, once we learned it, was so much better my boss raved about that software switch for YEARS. (I'm the one who made him buy us InDesign and convert all the layout creative to it.)

Making them do it in Illustrator must be what they do to designers in hell.

It also took me like a week to figure out how to export an InDesign document in CS4 to CS3, because you know, unlike the other adobe progams there's no save as CS3 option.

Yeah, wtf is up with that??? I didn't use 4, we used 3, and it still was not backwards compatable. Who DOES that? It really makes you wonder what on earth they are smoking over at Adobe.

I love Adobe. I also hate them with the passion of a million fiery suns. f

Well, at least in the versions I used, the help menu in the program worked very well. Which was good, because let's face it, it's not the most intuitive program in the world. I also had an InDesign Quickstart book (this one would be for your version) These books are some of the best software books out there. The ones that come packaged with your software you might could save and use if you need toilet paper during the next zombie apocolypse. Also, there is www.lydia.com, which I find to be an amazing resource.

[Rapscallion]

I love Adobe. I also hate them with the passion of a million fiery suns.

odi et amo, excrucior.

Rapscallion

[gremcint]

Believe me as a programmer who is going for a computer science degree I know how you feel. There is a big difference between web developers and programmers.


Also in regards to Adobe PS I still can't get over the fact of how hard it is to draw an empty square, either using the line tool, polygon tool or hunting through the settings on the box tool.

[muses_nightmare]

The print booklet option on InDesign is just awsome, well once you know how to use it .

I will have to check out that book, once I have the money for books. Which will probably be in 10 years or so, cause you know, the government wants it's money first :P or I can beg book money off of people for Birthdays , which is usually what I do anyway.

I am in an InDesign class in this quarter, and next quarter I do an advanced InDesign course. I've heard that if you get one certain instructor it's insanely difficult though, which I can believe, since he's my Advanced Typography instructor and he insists on giving 3 weeks of homework due in 1 week. So we end up having 7 or 8 major projects due around the same time, because he forgets that we have other classes.

and, I was rambling. I do that sometimes.

[DesignFox]

I hear ya on this one. 3 things piss me off to no end. 1) poor portrait photography 2) Bad web design 3) bad graphic design

I went to school for Graphics and decided I didn't like it. I may not know much about the programs/technical stuff anymore, but I do know my design basics. I should, apparently, have stayed with it...some of the crap these over-paid nimrods come up with really makes my head spin.

One "designer" I encountered is just what you guys described- the more photoshop filters the better. *gag*

And maybe it's because I learned Illustrator and Quark first, but I never had trouble making those programs do what I wanted. (I even did stuff with Quark you shouldn't have been using Quark for...) Photoshop was my nemesis...and part of the reason I didn't go for a design job. I don't have the patience to do the photo editing.

Web design I also decided I didn't have the patience for. I did a few sites for a few years for people I knew. After that I dropped it. My sites may have been basic (mostly coded in HTML) but at least they were elegant in their simplicity, easy to navigate, easy on the eyes, compatible with most browsers.

Some of what I see out there as "web design" makes me feel stabby. I can't believe people pay for it and think it's good.

Don't get me started on bad photography. Just don't. It was my profession for two years, not to mention the classes I took in college. Digital super cameras + photoshop do NOT make a person a photographer.

[muses_nightmare]

oh man, the amount of bad photography out there. I take pictures, sure, but I'm not a photographer, nor would I ever claim to be one. Yet it seems like every person out there with a camera is an "artist", sorry but blurry pictures of your face do not a photographer make. *sigh* I guess it's the same in a lot of fields out there.

If you want to see horrible web design just google MIA's (the musician) website, though I warn you not to go there if you are prone to seziures, and I'm being completely serious about it. I get migraines and it damn near triggered one.

[Fryk]

odi et amo, excrucior.

Rapscallion

Odi et amo. quare id faciam, fortasse requiris?
nescio, sed fieri sentio et excrucior.

[Bloodsoul]

I'm a cheap bastard and bought myself PaintShop instead of PhotoShop. I did use PhotoShop in high school (a good 8-9 years ago) and the only thing I miss was the better gradient tools that PaintShop lacks. Still, it has served me well in my meager, non-professional needs.

I don't feel ashamed to say that I possess the potential for possible talent. I won't dare call myself a graphic designer, that label just doesn't fit with my intentions at all. I just want to make my own comic books and that's all... but I'm not even doing that so I can't even call myself a comic book artist (friggin' Xbox and intrawebz; I have no self control). I know my present website is crap, atleast visually, and especially in terms of stimulation and interactivity; I'm sure I can do better if I tried, I have the resources necessary and coding doesn't come hard to me at all (granted, I refuse to use anything for coding but Notepad). Stilll, I like the simplistic approach I've got. It's not early-90's GeoCities (R.I.P.), but it's not the best I could be capable of doing; but, well, as long as it works (links, nothing too flashy, nothing out of place), than I'm happy. So, right now, regarding everything, I think the best label for me is... loser.

(That was just one big wall 'o text, wasn't it?)

[Rapscallion]

Odi et amo. quare id faciam, fortasse requiris?
nescio, sed fieri sentio et excrucior.

Correct origin. The translation of the fragment I used was closer in feeling, methinks.

"I hate and I love. I am tortured."

Rapscallion

[Fryk]

My wife is in school for graphic design. Man, I love to watch her work into a lather at some of the crap out there, especially the local businesses who think they're getting a good deal by letting the son of someone they go to church with draw up their advertising for them. The monstrosities you see driving through town on flyers...

I like to draw. I'm even fairly good at it, although it takes me forever to get a drawing done. But when the place in PA I used to do my laundry at saw my tablet while I was drawing and asked if I could come up with something, I turned it down, because I knew that I wasn't good enough to come up with something for him.