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Sometimes following better judgement sucks

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  • Sometimes following better judgement sucks

    I'm currently going to school as a medical assistant. We are in a phlebotomy sequence and have started doing blood draws. First and foremost I should mention that when learning clinical procedures we practice on each other (under instructor supervision of course).

    I really don't mind it. Sometimes a person may make a small mistake but that's okay. We're students after all.

    However, there's a girl in my class that I do consider a friend but the idea of having her draw blood on my makes me nervous.

    The reason being is this - she's mentally and emotionally unstable.

    This is not information that I forced or coaxed out of her. She freely shares this without the slightest bit of hesitation. In fact, earlier on in our introductory sequence she had missed a week of school because she had attempted to commit suicide. She recovered and came back to school, not at all shy about sharing why she was in the hospital.

    She's also shared that she's bipolar, has ADHD and is on medication. In fact she says this is the sixth time she's tried to kill herself. Again, not the slightest bit of hesitation. She just shares it as though it's everyday gossip.

    This in and of itself would not be a big deal except for something that happened last sequence.

    At the time we were learning injections. I didn't have a problem having her do injections on me as our injection sites were away from anything vital, such as nerves. Her technique was a bit uneasy to watch. When attempting to draw up liquid from a serum vial she would place the vial on the desk, hold her needle by the end of the barrel and jab the needle in. I sat next to her and would see the needle bend as she tried to push it through the rubber stopper.

    Not exactly something would instill confidence, but it was nothing compared to seeing how she handles stressful situations first hand.

    She was having trouble following safety protocol and was disregarding her technique. The instructor had taken her aside to talk about it and she had a meltdown. She started crying hysterically and getting really frustrated. This has happened at least twice in class.

    Last week as we were learning how to tie a tourniquet she nearly had another meltdown. She was having trouble tying it and I was trying to help her, but she kept making the same mistake over and over again. I tried to explain it to her again and she started getting frustrated, saying "I don't get what you mean!"

    Oh crud . . . not again.

    I managed to calm her down but it didn't do much for my confidence in her if she's going to start losing it before we're even dealing with needles. Now we did start drawing blood last week but I didn't let her do it on me. I made an excuse to get out of being her partner and while there were no mishaps when she drew blood, she did not pass her first attempt.

    Now she's determined to draw blood on me, which I wouldn't have that much of a problem with except:

    1. I have a tendon right next to where my vein is. I keep imagining her missing the vein and going for that instead, causing me severe pain and possibly paralysis.

    2. She hasn't exactly shown the best judgment. She always goofs off or talks during lecture and she really isn't taking clinical duties as seriously as she should be. I'm not saying we should be serious all the time but I don't think she sees how important it is that she remains focused. She's also going on about her ADHD and how she didn't take her medication on time.

    First of all, if she can't handle her condition without her medication, she needs to be taking it on time. This is especially true if she's going to be working in a doctor's office and administering medication to patients. Someone could be hurt or even killed if she gives them the wrong medication or amount because she wasn't paying attention.

    Secondly, the fact that she is so free about sharing sensitive information, such as her suicide attempts and mental disorders, displays poor judgment as far as I'm concerned. These are not things that anyone should be sharing - especially to people that you've known for less than a year. I can't imagine that anyone with a reasonable capacity for judgment wouldn't think twice before talking freely about such things.

    There's also another disturbing thing that she's told me.

    She has said, at least twice, that she hears voices in her head telling her bad things.

    I didn't learn about that until after injections but that's sort of a deal breaker for me.

    I feel a bit conflicted because I am her best friend in that class and she does rely on me for a lot of her support but my judgment is telling me that letting someone who is emotionally unstable, on medication (if she takes it on time) and hears "voices telling her bad things" place a needle in my body is a really bad idea. Again, my tendon is next to my vein. I'm sorry if this is selfish, but I value the use of my right arm more than her feelings.

    So tomorrow I'm probably going to have to tell her, as gently as I can, that I don't trust her enough to do an invasive procedure like that. I'm a bit afraid to, seeing how she reacts to any sort of criticism, but I'm not going to be the accident that proves she's not fit for clinical duties.

    I also feel as though I'm morally obligated to let someone else know what she's told me. On one hand, it's really not my business and it's very sensitive information, but I didn't twist her arm to get this information out of her. She just told me. At the same time, I feel that having someone with her mental and emotional state do these types of procedures is dangerous and if something were to happen to one of my classmates or a patient because I didn't speak up, I'd never be able to sleep again.

    So what should I do? Should I report to someone or keep it to myself?

  • #2
    Hurt her feelings or risk permanent injury?

    Makes it an easy choice.

    Rapscallion
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    • #3
      Oh I've already made that decision. I'm just not sure if I should tell the instructor or not about her hearing voices and what not. Again, it's serious and personal information but I think I have a responsibility to tell an authority figure.

      Do I? Or should I keep it secret?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Crescent Cat View Post
        Do I? Or should I keep it secret?
        ok look at it this way-how would you feel if she passes her courses and ends up treating you or one of your loved ones and the "voices" tell her to do something bad to them......could you live with that?

        If so say nothing, don't get involved, after all it's not affecting you.

        It may not be your loved one that gets hurt but it will be someone's.
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        • #5
          I also think she is that way because she wants to be that way and her claims of problems are either BS or because she likes the attention having said conditions give her.
          Jack Faire
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          • #6
            You need to talk to your instructors, NOW. If they don't do anything, take it to the department chair or dean. If she is this mentally unstable she doesn't need to be in the medical field helping patients.

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            • #7
              My brother has clinical depression. He was also in a nursing program, but he dropped out once he realized the stress of the job plus his condition was a recipe for disaster. He couldn't concentrate, forgot things, great things to have in a medical professional. It's a pity your friend doesn't have the same foresight.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by jackfaire View Post
                I also think she is that way because she wants to be that way and her claims of problems are either BS or because she likes the attention having said conditions give her.
                I agree with Jack. Note that I do not know anyone personally who has attempted suicide, but from what I recall reading and learning about it, most suicide victims who are serious about their attempts don't go around telling people about it. Especially people they don't know. People who say they are going to hurt themselves rarely do; they tell people that they will because they want attention. Victims who actually following through with the final act often don't tell anyone.

                Whether some or all of her stories about her suicide attempts and the voices in her head are true or not, she has no business being in the medical field. If I knew a nurse or a nurse's assistant who was treating me had acted like that in class, I would be livid.

                What I would do: Write down everything that you can think of that she's told you that has made you uneasy about her practicing with you, and then tell these things to your professor.

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                • #9
                  just tell her you are not comfortable with her drawing blood from you, then tell your instructor as she is clearly not suited for this atall and will be a danger to others. If someone can't handle pressure or emergencies then they don't belong in the medical field.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jackfaire View Post
                    I also think she is that way because she wants to be that way and her claims of problems are either BS or because she likes the attention having said conditions give her.
                    You know, I've thought of that as well. It just seems so strange that someone who's really gone through the emotional anguish one feels before attempting suicide would be so willing to talk about it.

                    So maybe she's making it up, or exaggerating her issues, or maybe she's got some other issue that makes her willing to talk about traumatic experiences like that.

                    Either way, it shows poor judgment.

                    I've decided I will talk to my instructor about her today, but I'm going to try and stay away from saying she's "definitely" or "clearly" not suited for the medical field. I know it may seem obvious to us, but I don't have any sort of qualifications to make that call.

                    I don't know. Maybe she has already gone through a mental assessment and they've determined she's fit. But that's just the thing - I don't know.

                    I don't know if the school is aware that her absence was due to a suicide attempt or just a hospitalization for another reason. I don't know if they're aware that she's on medication for bipolar disorder, but I am pretty sure they don't know about the voices she hears.

                    Either way, the only role I want to play in this whole mess it making sure a qualified person is aware of the situation so that he or she can determine whether she should be allowed to perform clinical procedures or not.

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                    • #11
                      You need to tell her No when it comes to practicing on you and you need to let the instructor what she’s told you. If he doesn’t do anything, go above him. If she cant deal with practicing on people in a controlled environment she’s going to be terrible in an actual medical field operation, wither it be a Dr.s office or hospital situation. And if the instructor tells you she gets to practice on you anyway tell him you will not only hold her legally responsible, but him as well since he obviously has seen her technique and is still allowing her to practice on people and still say No.

                      She really shouldn’t be able to even pass the class if her technique is that bad, even if she was mentally stable. I as a patient would find it a bid disconcerting that she cant even figure out how to put on a tourniquet. Problem is a lot of people don’t even realize that they have the right to refuse treatment from any medical professional. In the case of phlebotomy you can demand that another person stick you if you don’t trust the first person.

                      The voices in her head could be from a verity of mental issues. Probably not schophrina, but you’ve already said she’s suicidal (so depressed?) is bi-polar, ADHA and doesn’t seem to deal with stress well - I know that at least 3 of those can cause voices. You’ve said that you don’t feel as if its any of your business, but she has made it your business by telling you these things. She’s obviously getting worse, you need to let someone know before she attempts to kill herself again or hurts an actual patient. It’s the same as if a child told you they were being abused, its now your business as a responsible adult to help them.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MaggieTheCat View Post
                        Victims who actually following through with the final act often don't tell anyone.
                        .
                        To collaborate no one knew my dad was suicidal until after it happened. Most other people I have spoken with never saw it coming.
                        Jack Faire
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                        • #13
                          I did speak with my instructor today. She said that my friend, who I'll just call "Amy" for the sake of this post, is under the scrutiny of a lot of people. She had observed and taken the way Amy deals with stress into consideration, but she didn't know about the voices and she thanked me for telling her.

                          To my relief my teacher said that Amy's technique and the way she handles stress had been taken into consideration and - assuming she passes the courses - she will not be placed at an extern site in which she'll be preforming clinical duties.

                          She was still allowed to practice in phlebotomy today but I think the instructor is keeping a closer eye on her than before.

                          Also today Amy had mentioned that her medication didn't seem to be working and she may have to increase the dosage. I told her not to do that until she spoke with her doctor.

                          The way it's looking right now, I'm not too sure if she's going to pass this sequence. I know this is going to sound mean, but to an extent I sort of hope she doesn't. It's not that I don't want her to succeed, but given her mental state having her do clinical work and invasive procedures is an accident waiting to happen.

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                          • #14
                            I would be inclined to think that Amy actually wants to be taken away from it all, and is telling you because she doesn't want to do it herself (hmm.... that could be taken another way!) She knows it's for the best that she shouldn't be there, but still needs to try - so that she can believe that she can help other people, even if she feels she can't help herself.

                            Ie - she would want you to tell the administration.

                            Well, that's my completely unprofessional opinion....
                            ZOE: Preacher, don't the Bible got some pretty specific things to say about killing?

                            SHEPHERD BOOK: Quite specific. It is, however, Somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps.

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                            • #15
                              Things are not looking good for Amy. I don't know what's going to happen to her but I think she may be getting dropped from the program.

                              Today she did something completely stupid and against protocol. We were doing blood draws and she had just finished up on a classmate. She placed the bloody needle in the bio sharps container but it didn't slide all the way through into the container. Rather than shaking the container a bit to get it to fall through or flipping up the flap to ensure disposal, she decided to stick her hand into the bio sharps container and push the needle down.

                              She got stuck with the needle. Dirty contaminated needle stick. The first one the instructor had in her eight years of teaching.

                              She. Was. Pissed!

                              They had to fill out an incident report and get other instructors in to help. I wasn't there to witness the whole incident but apparently there was a lot of blood. Amy was asked to leave the campus for that day and she now has to get tested.

                              Unbelievable. Complete disregard of common sense and safety protocol and it's ruined the teacher's perfect record.

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