Overly restrictive rules and policies (kinda rambling)

[Rageaholic]

Most of this takes me back to school, but reading some of the idiotic policies some of the members at CS have to put up with at work, I have revisited one of my biggest annoyances, being unnecessarly restricted. In other words MICROMANAGEMENT. In which what should be simple rights and tasks are restricted by some higher power, usually requiring their permission before it's allowed. (if you want to skip all this, just read the paragraph in bold at the bottom)

Let me give one basic example, no cell phones in schools. No, not just in class, no cell phones on school grounds period! They say that they don't want students to be texting during class or goofing around. Well that may be true, but I think the real reason they do this is CONTROL. You see, when cell phones entered the scenes, the schools no longer had control over who students call. Instead of having to ask permission to use the phone, students can call home using their cell phones, but by banning cell phones, schools have that power again.

Cell phone was just a minor example of this. It gets really bad when your superiors tell you when you can use the bathroom or get a drink of water. Just hearing about some CSers having asshole managers like this sends fiery hot rage through my veins. I did have this at school, with the one teacher who felt the need to micromanage when I used the bathroom and get water, and it drove me crazy. I can only imagine what it would be like dealing with that crap to make a living! There is simply NO reason why you should have to ask anyone permission to go the bathroom. In the future, if anyone tries that shit on me, they will get the finger, and if they try to stop me, they will find themselves in a world of hurt.

Another example that has been mentioned to death is self defense and relying on the police. Nothing against the police, but they can't be everywhere 24/7. If someone is trying to kill me, I am not going to sit around and wait for the police, I am going to do what I can to stay alive, even if it means violence in retrun.

In the end, *I* want to be the one who decides when I go to bathroom, get water, or protect myself. I do not want to rely completely on other people for things that I can easily provide for myself. If everyone was capible of taking care of themselves, just imagine how much better off we'd be. Why make things more difficult by not allowing me to help myself? It's even more frusturating when you know you can do it better than the people who are supposed to, but can't because you don't have the authority. That just sucks.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

I totally get where you're coming from, having just escaped high school

It's as if their reliance on others to account for their quivering inabilities must apply to everyone because it applies to them. "I can make my mind up about this... let's make a system to do it for me, and then everyone will use it too!!!"

Self-defense is just another arm of self-reliance, something I'm 100% behind.

And, to add a bit, isn't it annoying when you get a new version of any given software, only for it not only to be radically different, but also have half the tools and choices grayed out because why would you want to do THAT?. Not that it isn't possible, but rather because they don't think it makes sense...

grrrrrrr

[Lace Neil Singer]

Sadly, the cell phone rule is normally put in place cuz of a core group of dickheads who abuse the privilege. So everyone gets shafted. It sucks, but that's how it is.

[crashhelmet]

Sadly, the cell phone rule is normally put in place cuz of a core group of dickheads who abuse the privilege. So everyone gets shafted. It sucks, but that's how it is.

The same applies to controlling when employees or students can take breaks, goto the bathroom, get drinks, etc. It's these abusers that ruin it for the honest people.

I don't know if I'd call the cell phone issue a control issue. The high school I went to had pay phones across campus for us all to use. As a former high school teacher, I can confirm the distractions caused by cell phone and pagers going off in the middle of class.

Getting back to bathroom breaks and such, I've worked with people (still do, actually) that take every chance they get to go take a smoke break. They hide behind the excuse of needing a drink or a bathroom break or whatever else they can pull out of their ass. It causes the rest of us to have to work harder to pick up their slack. Because of these people, I'm all for strict break schedules.

CH

[DrFaroohk]

I've always hated the notion that one person can ruin it for 10 others. I was raised to be accountable and to take responsibility for my OWN actions. Well, I'm not abusing the bathroom/cellphone/smoke break privileges, so why should I have to obey the same restrictive policies? They were meant for the abusers, so just make the abusers do it. It's not discrimination, it's behavior based.

I've never let a job dictate life necessities to me anyway, which is probably why I'm unemployed. Breathing, hydrating myself or removing bodily wastes is a necessary part of life, and no one has any right to tell me I can't do these things. Besides, if I come down with a horrible bladder infection from holding my urine, or my stomach hurts so bad from having to take a crap that I vomit on a customer, how's that going to look for you Mr. Business Man? Feel free to dictate other things if there's a good reason for it, such as smoking or phone calls, because those aren't necessary. No one ever passed out and died from lack of cigarettes.

My mom was extremely over-controlling in my formative years, and her belief was that rules are like chains - the more you have the easier it is to keep the beast locked up. I suppose its a good theory, but all it creates in the end is resentment and a "lawyer" attitude. If you're gonna have a million a 9 rules about absolute bs then I'm going to argue my way through every single one of them. On the other hand, if you're reasonable and willing to listen and compromise, then so am I.

[jackfaire]

the more you have the easier it is to keep the beast locked up. .

*rolls eyes* This to me is along the same lines of people who tell me no one is perfect. Bullshit I am perfectly me. I behave the way I do because I want to not because some hidden beast inside is controlling me.

[Rageaholic]

Time to reply

I totally get where you're coming from, having just escaped high school

It's as if their reliance on others to account for their quivering inabilities must apply to everyone because it applies to them. "I can make my mind up about this... let's make a system to do it for me, and then everyone will use it too!!!"

Self-defense is just another arm of self-reliance, something I'm 100% behind.

And, to add a bit, isn't it annoying when you get a new version of any given software, only for it not only to be radically different, but also have half the tools and choices grayed out because why would you want to do THAT?. Not that it isn't possible, but rather because they don't think it makes sense...

grrrrrrr

Yup, yup, preach on brother. I should control my own destiny, not someone else!

Sadly, the cell phone rule is normally put in place cuz of a core group of dickheads who abuse the privilege. So everyone gets shafted. It sucks, but that's how it is.

Yeah, well fuck those people.

The same applies to controlling when employees or students can take breaks, goto the bathroom, get drinks, etc. It's these abusers that ruin it for the honest people.

I don't know if I'd call the cell phone issue a control issue. The high school I went to had pay phones across campus for us all to use. As a former high school teacher, I can confirm the distractions caused by cell phone and pagers going off in the middle of class.

Getting back to bathroom breaks and such, I've worked with people (still do, actually) that take every chance they get to go take a smoke break. They hide behind the excuse of needing a drink or a bathroom break or whatever else they can pull out of their ass. It causes the rest of us to have to work harder to pick up their slack. Because of these people, I'm all for strict break schedules.

CH

Heard that arguement before and it still doesn't convince me. If people abuse their right, fire their ass! That way, the honest people who do need to take breaks can do so without problem. And with school students goofing around in the halls, so what? They are the ones missing out, and only them, why force them into something they won't otherwise be interested in? Would it make much of a difference if they were in class anyway?

I have heard some really fucked up policies on this board. One member who worked in a call center said that they had to wait for a supervisors approval to use the bathroom. That meant the supervisor had to come over just to approve of the break, which could take up to a half an hour. A half an hour just to use the bathroom, something that could be so simplified if they could just go.

Yes, that's an extreme example, but it still doesn't change the ridiculousness of making all these stupid rules about going to the bathroom. Do they really distrust their employees that much that they feel they have to be control freaks? If they do than there is a problem.

In the end, no matter how big of a problem people abusing their rights are, putting limitations on everyones rights is only going to create more problems for everyone.

I've always hated the notion that one person can ruin it for 10 others. I was raised to be accountable and to take responsibility for my OWN actions. Well, I'm not abusing the bathroom/cellphone/smoke break privileges, so why should I have to obey the same restrictive policies? They were meant for the abusers, so just make the abusers do it. It's not discrimination, it's behavior based.

I've never let a job dictate life necessities to me anyway, which is probably why I'm unemployed. Breathing, hydrating myself or removing bodily wastes is a necessary part of life, and no one has any right to tell me I can't do these things. Besides, if I come down with a horrible bladder infection from holding my urine, or my stomach hurts so bad from having to take a crap that I vomit on a customer, how's that going to look for you Mr. Business Man? Feel free to dictate other things if there's a good reason for it, such as smoking or phone calls, because those aren't necessary. No one ever passed out and died from lack of cigarettes.

My mom was extremely over-controlling in my formative years, and her belief was that rules are like chains - the more you have the easier it is to keep the beast locked up. I suppose its a good theory, but all it creates in the end is resentment and a "lawyer" attitude. If you're gonna have a million a 9 rules about absolute bs then I'm going to argue my way through every single one of them. On the other hand, if you're reasonable and willing to listen and compromise, then so am I.

I've always had a resentment toward people who were all into the "rules". I never had parents who had a shitload of rules, but I've known teachers and other parents who made all these stupid rules. The way I saw it was if there was going to be a rule, there better be a good reason for it, which is why I never took kindly to "because I said so". I had a friends mother who would randomly decide that he wasn't allowed to use the computer on a given day. Why? No reason, just because she said so.

This is also why I despise a lot of religion. All these stupid inane rules to follow because "god said so". Fuck that! I also hate the "You can't do anything without god" mindset. WTF does that mean? Isn't god always with us? Or are we supposed to be 'on hold' for god so he can take his time to save us from hell? UGH! Just let me be self sufficent, okay?

Sorry about the OT rambling, but I really have always hated other people trying to control my life.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Sorry, but as long as there are people who abuse their priviledges, there's going to be rules dictating what you can or can't do. Don't like it? Then become self employed, cuz most businesses have these rules.

It would take far more time to winkle out the idiots breaking the rules one by one than impose a blanket ban on say, too many phone calls. That is why most places will impose a blanket ban. I don't agree with it; however, I understand how it works and if I need to make an emergency phone call (for example, my bike is currently in the shop and I need to arrange a ride), my manager will let me use the work phone. But no-one is allowed to have their mobiles on them while working, purely due to a core few who sit there blathering into their phones all day and ignoring customers.

[HYHYBT]

As a former high school teacher, I can confirm the distractions caused by cell phone and pagers going off in the middle of class.

So you make a rule against *having them in the classroom*, or even just against having them *on* in the classroom, not against bringing them to school at all. You wouldn't ban paper to stop people throwing spitwads; you punish those who do it. Same with phones.

[crashhelmet]

Heard that arguement before and it still doesn't convince me. If people abuse their right, fire their ass! That way, the honest people who do need to take breaks can do so without problem. And with school students goofing around in the halls, so what? They are the ones missing out, and only them, why force them into something they won't otherwise be interested in? Would it make much of a difference if they were in class anyway?

You obviously haven't been in the workforce much. Gone are the days when we can outright fire someone without proof of gross negligence or illegal activities. You need to have a paper trial for miles dictating the who/what/why/when/how of their write ups in addition to counseling and other forms of bullshit to keep the labor boards, unemployment, and any other potential lawsuits off your back.

The attitude about allowing kids to goof off in schools is one of the biggest reasons why our education system is as crappy as it is. Teachers and schools have become babysitters instead of educators, but that's a different thread.

As to what others have said about why they should be punished because others abuse privileges, you're not being punished. In most cases, you're adhering to the company policy that was already in place. It's the managers and supervisors that are no longer allowed to bend or break the rules for their employees.

I don't know how it works in other countries, but here in the US you are mandated to have certain breaks for certain hours worked. Most companies adjust their break schedules around those. Work an 8 hour day? You get two 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute lunch. They're usually separated something like work 2 hours, get a break. Work another 2 and take your lunch. Work 2 get a break, work another 2 and go home.

Most employers believe it's common sense to use those times to take care of whatever bathroom, sustenance, and tobacco needs you have. Some employers will allow you to have drinks while you work and they'll usually allow the quick bathroom break if need be. But if that bathroom break is 10-15 minutes instead of 3-4, they tend to get upset.

Depending on the job you have, you may want to have a supervisor approve your unscheduled break. ESPECIALLY if you work with money or anything else valuable. I for one would not want to leave a cash drawer unattended.

If you have a condition or are on medication that makes you have to pee more frequently, then let your boss know. I'm sure they'll be much more accommodating. Otherwise, be lucky that you have a job.

CH

[fireheart17]

Most employers believe it's common sense to use those times to take care of whatever bathroom, sustenance, and tobacco needs you have. Some employers will allow you to have drinks while you work and they'll usually allow the quick bathroom break if need be. But if that bathroom break is 10-15 minutes instead of 3-4, they tend to get upset.


If you have a condition or are on medication that makes you have to pee more frequently, then let your boss know. I'm sure they'll be much more accommodating. Otherwise, be lucky that you have a job.

CH

we're a little different over here. I know that my work has the rule of if you work more than 8 hours in a day, you get 2 15-minute PAID tea breaks, and a 1-hour unpaid lunch break.

As for the loo/drink thing, us cashiers are meant to keep a bottle of water on the checkouts for that sort of thing. Unfortunately, especially in my case, I tend to drink like a camel and that does result in the odd bathroom break. (and I have had 3 or 4 blood tests to prove that I am not diabetic) The only issue I see with having scheduled loo breaks, or being expected to take them ONLY on your breaks, is that some people don't control when their bladder fills up and/or are prone to UTI's. Hence, a few days later, they're the ones having to fork out about $40 or more for antibiotics to treat said UTI.

[Skelly]

Sadly, the cell phone rule is normally put in place cuz of a core group of dickheads who abuse the privilege. So everyone gets shafted. It sucks, but that's how it is.

Then punish the dickheads. Hard. Or is that demeaning because it somehow singles them out as being dickheads?

[Lace Neil Singer]

OK then, just how does one find every single dickhead and punish them? They don't exactly wear little stickers proclaiming their dickheadedness; plus, if you can't do without your ickle mobile for longer than five minutes, you need to see a psychiatrist. There's got to be mum issues in there somewhere.

[Rageaholic]

You obviously haven't been in the workforce much. Gone are the days when we can outright fire someone without proof of gross negligence or illegal activities. You need to have a paper trial for miles dictating the who/what/why/when/how of their write ups in addition to counseling and other forms of bullshit to keep the labor boards, unemployment, and any other potential lawsuits off your back.

I've never been hired before. I'm just a college student, but I enjoy reading the stories at CS.com and like this site which is why I signed up. Plus, I hope to eventually be hired (sometime this winter). I still think I'm entitled to opinions on BS policies though. I've dealt with enough of them at school, and I have been involved with religion. I think I altleast know enough about stupid rules to have a say in it.

The attitude about allowing kids to goof off in schools is one of the biggest reasons why our education system is as crappy as it is. Teachers and schools have become babysitters instead of educators, but that's a different thread.

Let them goof off then and let the ones who actually want to learn learn without feeling guilty for having to pee! As bad as it is with workforce policies, at least in school, their education is on them. In college, if I have to pee, I get up and pee and catch up on whatever I missed. Same thing if I'm a few minutes late. At school, you'll get in trouble if you're even a few seconds late for class, it's happpened to me in middle school. They act like being a few seconds late is the same is missing class all together. It's that slippery slope nonsense which is a FALACY (sp?). And if they are really afraid of a few students goofing off, then like I said, it's on THEM, not everyone else in the class. Let them go to the bathroom without micromanaging.

As to what others have said about why they should be punished because others abuse privileges, you're not being punished. In most cases, you're adhering to the company policy that was already in place. It's the managers and supervisors that are no longer allowed to bend or break the rules for their employees.

I don't know how it works in other countries, but here in the US you are mandated to have certain breaks for certain hours worked. Most companies adjust their break schedules around those. Work an 8 hour day? You get two 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute lunch. They're usually separated something like work 2 hours, get a break. Work another 2 and take your lunch. Work 2 get a break, work another 2 and go home.

Most employers believe it's common sense to use those times to take care of whatever bathroom, sustenance, and tobacco needs you have. Some employers will allow you to have drinks while you work and they'll usually allow the quick bathroom break if need be. But if that bathroom break is 10-15 minutes instead of 3-4, they tend to get upset.

*sigh* I guess this is when you have to argue how strict you want to be. I'll admit that there could be times when these rules would be necessary, but the ones I'm talking about is needing the supervisors for everything.

I'll compare it to school. You have the no cell phones in class rule or at least make them turn it off. That's fine, but then you have my brothers high school which outright bans cells on school property. That's when it's taken to an extreme, and those are what I am mostly talking about. If someone is caught screwing with their phone in class, than deal with them. But don't make it so those who aren't assholes with their cell phones get in trouble over simply having their phone on them. What's the harm? In the end, it's just a stupid preventive messure to stop the people from goofing around in class with their cell phone, but it also unnecessarly restricts everyone from bringing a cell phone to school.

Depending on the job you have, you may want to have a supervisor approve your unscheduled break. ESPECIALLY if you work with money or anything else valuable. I for one would not want to leave a cash drawer unattended.

Than just lock the drawer and go to the bathroom. Why should a supervisor be needed for that? Besides, my bodily functions don't have time to wait for a supervisor to take his precious time approving my bathroom break. Fuck that shit. Give the employees a little empowerment, not relying on some stupidvisor to approve their bathroom break.

[Skelly]

OK then, just how does one find every single dickhead and punish them? They don't exactly wear little stickers proclaiming their dickheadedness; plus, if you can't do without your ickle mobile for longer than five minutes, you need to see a psychiatrist. There's got to be mum issues in there somewhere.

From my experience in school, they tended to show up fairly easy. I always kept my cell phone on me, only that I turned it off during classes. Always. Explain why I should be punished for what other people do, instead of simply punishing those who can't abide and keep them turned off?