Unnecessary roughness

[Plaidman]

show me where anyone has said to treat them like gods. once more, since you can't seem to grasp it, we're saying treat all prisoners humanely.

and you still haven't answered my question.

I did. Plenty of times. I'll say it again. Bigger font too. I'd do it in caps, but that's overkill.

Repeat Offenders. Repeat Offenders. Repeat Offenders. Obviously the kill them with kindness and hope they don't do it again apporch everyone's so fond of isn't working, then beat them senseless until they can't even walk. Let them know that that was the cause of it.

[Plaidman]

You've never made a mistake in your life. Good for you. Not everybody is perfect.

That is an awesome line that I wish I could sig it.

I'm not perfect. Nowhere did I ever say I never made a mistake in my life. I've made alot. I would be on the reciving end of my own punishment plenty of times for my own horrid misdeeds.

Snip: Basically all criminals deserve more stuff then people that dont' commit crimes.

Really. Give scum all the help they need.

How about this instead. Give people all the help they need, before they commit crimes. Oh wait, we do do that. We give them chances for educations. We give them chances for jobs. Plenty of health clinics out there for giving meds, especally antidepressents. Plenty of shelters to go to for help.

They choose to NOT do that. They instead choose, to you know, murder and rape. Then, once in prison for the very short stay, they get as much food as they want. Some of the best healthcare in this country. Whatever degree they want to learn, again, for free....

Wow. I mean, seriously. They always say crime doesn't pay, but it honestly does, especally if your caught.

[linguist]

Repeat offender that cannot stop, don't deserve this stupid world view that they all must be treated like basically gods.

show me where anyone has said to treat them like gods. once more, since you can't seem to grasp it, we're saying treat all prisoners humanely.

and you still haven't answered my question.

[Red Panda]

You aren't concerned about the victims either. You are concerned with making yourself feel better because a person who did something wrong is being punished. If you cared about the victims you would want to take steps to prevent people from being victims in the future.

You've never made a mistake in your life. Good for you. Not everybody is perfect.

He's better off dead, then too, if he lacks the sense of valuing another human being's life.

And what if he didn't mean to kill the person? People panic, or use more force then they mean to, or even are simply present when an acomplice kills. Not every killer is The Zodiac. Most are people who have some part of their life spin out of control.

In fact, a coworker of mine was just a victim of a home invasion by a woman strung out on meth (surprise surprise) because her family finally gave her the boot for not getting help, so she goes and breaks into my coworker's house and robs a bunch of her personal stuff to commit identity theft, then tries to rob a few neighbor's houses before she's caught!

Obviously that isn't deserving of death or even several years in prison, but what is to become of my coworker? She already has a heart condition, now every day she lives in fear that it will happen again!!! And that junkie? She was only in jail over a weekend. She's out. God only knows when she'll strike again!

I disagree with the woman only being in jail for the weekend. Lets say she gets two years for her crimes, I have no idea if this is realistic or not but its just a hypothetical.

The way you want jail to work she is released after two years and she is likely to go and committe more crimes. She recieved the punishment but her situation is worse then it was then when she had no choice but to be a thief, so she is unlikely to pull herself up without help.

In my situation we put her in jail for two years, get her clean, get her some sort of skill that will help her get a job. Maybe not a great job, but lets teach her how to do something worthwhile. Even if its as simple as typing. Also get her a GED so she can meet the eduacation requirements for most jobs. Possibly even work on repearing that family relationship so she has there support once she is out.

In my scenario instead of another ex con junkie on the streets we have a woman who is hirable, clean, and has help to keep her from turning back to crime. Its certainly better then the future for her you want her to have.

Oh, and some worthless fuck only got 1 1/2 years in prison for comitting a drive-by shooting recently, with intent to kill, but luckily his sense of timing sucked. Intent to kill imminent, but a year and a half because we can fix him to not do that again, right? After all, we can teach him to value human life.

Why was he trying to kill? Was it gang related? Revenge? Simple fun? Was he off his meds and thought demons were attakcing the earht? You don't have any details to know what is going on. Maybe the person he was shooting at comitted a crime against him? Plaidman would be applauding him if that were the case.

I've known alot of people who have gone through the system as teens. Some don't change, alot of them do. In any case I would rather get criminals to spend their jail time working to better themselves rather then working on becoming better criminals.

[Plaidman]

There are less extreme examples then yours. Don't let what happened to you blind you from the rest of reality.

If a 17 year old high school drop out junkie from the ghetto kills somebody in a robbery gone wrong then I think that society on a whole is better off getting them clean, educated, and able to face life then just punishing them. If you just punish then you end up with a 27 year old high school drop out junkie from the ghetto who will keep committing crimes.

1: Made the choice of doing drugs.
2: Made the choice to rob.
3: Made the choice to kill.

Sorry, growing up with /pressure/ to do bad things doesn't make people do them. People can say no. Is it lonely at times? Likely. But you at least can live your life knowing that you didn't turn to drugs, didn't turn to robbing, and didn't turn to murder, simply because it was the cool thing to do.

I very likely should be on meth right now, seeing as my parents did it, my uncles did it. my aunts did it. I should be drunk every night since my family again, do it.

Oh wait, I don't. Nether do bulk of my cousins. (Some do, though one, M, is trying her best to get clean, but keeps being stupid).

So no. Again, your rewarding a fucking piece of shit that MURDERED, because hey, his life was haaaaaaaaaaaaaard.

Life sucks period. For all people.

What about his victims? Your less concern with them, and more concerned with helping this piece of shit that made the choice to ruin lives.

[blas87]

He's better off dead, then too, if he lacks the sense of valuing another human being's life.

Junkies are pretty worthless and a dime a dozen. Enough people have been terrorized by a junkie gone nuts or withdrawling breaking into their home or store or worse, killing them over nothing.

In fact, a coworker of mine was just a victim of a home invasion by a woman strung out on meth (surprise surprise) because her family finally gave her the boot for not getting help, so she goes and breaks into my coworker's house and robs a bunch of her personal stuff to commit identity theft, then tries to rob a few neighbor's houses before she's caught!

Obviously that isn't deserving of death or even several years in prison, but what is to become of my coworker? She already has a heart condition, now every day she lives in fear that it will happen again!!! And that junkie? She was only in jail over a weekend. She's out. God only knows when she'll strike again!

Oh, and some worthless fuck only got 1 1/2 years in prison for comitting a drive-by shooting recently, with intent to kill, but luckily his sense of timing sucked. Intent to kill imminent, but a year and a half because we can fix him to not do that again, right? After all, we can teach him to value human life.

[Red Panda]

There are less extreme examples then yours. Don't let what happened to you blind you from the rest of reality.

If a 17 year old high school drop out junkie from the ghetto kills somebody in a robbery gone wrong then I think that society on a whole is better off getting them clean, educated, and able to face life then just punishing them. If you just punish then you end up with a 27 year old high school drop out junkie from the ghetto who will keep committing crimes.

[Plaidman]

you've admitted that you know there are people who are convicted while innocent. so here you've either contradicted yourself or shown that you don't care about the innocent.

Right. See's I have to show this step by step since so many people think I'm so horrible monster for thinking scum need to be, you know, punished for their fucking deeds.

1: Man murders child. People see. Cameras. DNA matchs it. He admits it. Yay.
2: Gets out of his easy life of prison. Goes out, kills another person. Ok, whole nine yards of perfect proof, even him laughing in glee.
3: Gets out again. Goes out. Murders again. Again. Proof. No-more prison time for him. He obviously cannot stop it. So remove his eyes, ears, limbs, tongue, beat him brutally and let him go. No more help from any goverment. He's proven repeatly, he cannot stop himself, and since prison doesn't work.

Repeat offender that cannot stop, don't deserve this stupid world view that they all must be treated like basically gods.

nobody's saying to coddle them. what we're saying is to imprison them, but treat them in a humane fashion such that if they are later found to be innocent of the crimes of which they are accused can be released with nothing lost but time and without being physically harmed.

People have though. From dawn of our current civilazition, more and more prisoners are getting more and more freedoms, and currently have far more rights then most people on the outside. What twisted logic is that?

Some people do commit crimes because of circumstances, and yes some do it for nothing more then just because. But unless we try to fix the cause, then those that are truly in need of rehabilitation will fall through the cracks. I am a firm believer that yes crimes need to be punished.. but our society keeps punishing even after the person does their time. Which compound the problem and giving the person no where to go but back to their old life.

That is a big problem: But it goes with the whole treating someone like shit just because of their past and/or views that I'm heavy against.
Despite their fact most of them are scum that love to do horrible things for whatever reasons, they are still people in the end and they did their time. (But some will very very likely just go out and do it again, because they are just not punished. They go to a summer camp)

[blas87]

Old life?

If you kill someone in cold blood, you don't deserve a free chance at life again. Parole shouldn't even be an option, if you're so violent and out of control that you have already beaten several ex girlfriends and managed to kill one, then hide the body and flee the state.

Maybe in my situation I have the right to puntificate all this, because what happened to my family, there was no one else suspected and there was no doubt the guy did it. It was over fairly quickly, and without too many issues. This was not a case of the wrong person charged. He deserves to die, not get another chance at life for what he did.

[Kimmik]

Prison is no cake walk... not only do they mix the violent and non violent, the predators and the pray... you can get killed for having something that someone wants. Prisons no longer are about solving the problems and some times they make the problem worse as there are some that do not know how to live outside.

Some people do commit crimes because of circumstances, and yes some do it for nothing more then just because. But unless we try to fix the cause, then those that are truly in need of rehabilitation will fall through the cracks. I am a firm believer that yes crimes need to be punished.. but our society keeps punishing even after the person does their time. Which compound the problem and giving the person no where to go but back to their old life.

[linguist]

Once found guilty, then let them be beaten and hurt badily.

you've admitted that you know there are people who are convicted while innocent. so here you've either contradicted yourself or shown that you don't care about the innocent.

Yet bulk of people here seem to think that the trash must be protected. They must be coddled and given lots and lots of presents because they need the help.

nobody's saying to coddle them. what we're saying is to imprison them, but treat them in a humane fashion such that if they are later found to be innocent of the crimes of which they are accused can be released with nothing lost but time and without being physically harmed.

Justice is when someone is equally hurt as much as they did to others, and live to experence it. (Such as the removal of limbs/eyes/ears/tongue for those that murder. Let them live in their own world for the rest of their piece of shit lives.

no, that's vengeance. and since you couldn't be bothered to answer the question the first time i asked it, i'll ask again: what do you do if you treat an innocent in such a fashion? you can't exactly just give their limbs, eyes, ears, or tongue back. you can't take back a beating. should they be allowed to exact vengeance against their accusers? the prosecutors? the jury members? the judge? where does vengeance end?

It's fine if you all want to love the murderers and rapists. It's no different from bulk of people who belive the guilty must be given more attention and respect for the things they did.

don't put words in our mouths. none of us calling for humane treatment of the convicted have said we love the murderers and rapists. all we've said is it's better to treat everyone humanely in order to protect those who have been unjustly convicted. personally, i'd rather see a guilty person go free than an innocent one killed or injured for someone else's crime.

[Red Panda]

I know enough about criminals to know they don't all do it for attention, love being in prison, and once they get out only commit more crimes because they want more attention. I'm no expert but I think there could possibly be more motivation then attention seeking and prisons might actually suck alot what with the gang violence, terrible conditions, and rape.

Plaidman, your views are very selfish. You care only about punishment and nothing about prevention. To you its more important to make yourself feel good about a criminal being hurt then to take time to stop the criminal from hurting anybody else. Society has been trying this method since the begining of civilivation, its not that effective. Its time to try something new.

[Nyoibo]

Once again you show you don't know anything about prison or criminals.

Please enlighten us on your expansive and all encompasing knowledge that far outstrips we poor unlerned and ignorant fools miniscule knowledge base.

in other words, back it up or shut it up, why do you know more about criminals or prison than any of us?

[Plaidman]

Once again you show you don't know anything about prison or criminals. If you ever get jury duty please let them know your archaic and bizarre views on justice so you won't end up being picked.

Been on it. Chose innocent. I wasn't convienced she did it. Weeks long. Lots of fucking fun. NOT.

Proof needs proof regardless.

Once found guilty, then let them be beaten and hurt badily.

Yet bulk of people here seem to think that the trash must be protected. They must be coddled and given lots and lots of presents because they need the help.

What about the people they hurt? You don't give two shits about their pain.

This world loves bullies. From preschool on, the people that infect the most pain on others, is always the coolest and best, and fuck the people they hurt.

Treads on to when they are adults (Sometimes preteens/teens) when they murder/rape/destroy. Do they get punished? Nope. They get love letters, free medical care, all the attention and love they want while fuck the people they hurt.

That is not justice, no matter what you want to tell yourself otherwise.

Justice is when someone is equally hurt as much as they did to others, and live to experence it. (Such as the removal of limbs/eyes/ears/tongue for those that murder. Let them live in their own world for the rest of their piece of shit lives.


It's fine if you all want to love the murderers and rapists. It's no different from bulk of people who belive the guilty must be given more attention and respect for the things they did.

Am I strange? Likely. But I'm very very sick of people doing horrible things to others, and never being punished for it. EVER. If anything, they always seem to get MORE respect, MORE gifts, MORE love then anyone they ever harmed, who gets treated as nothing more then garbage for daring to try to put the person that did whatever harm tehy did to the in a bad light.

After all, it's totally not the criminal fault he blew off the guys head. He needed the money, for you know, drug money. We should reward this murderer!

Look. It's pretty easy to not be punished in my /harsh/ treatment of punishment.

Don't Murder.
Don't Rape.
Don't Hurt others.

I mean really. Is it that fucking hard to do?

Rarely does anyone puts threats on others lives to go out and rob and murder and rape. They CHOOSE to do so.

Ahh yes. The whole "It's not his fault. It's his brain chemistry!"

Yeah. I know how people can be crazy. There is drug treatment for that you know. If they refuse to take it, shove it down their throat then. It's better then the alterative when they take another persons life, only to have that victims family be told "Well, he wasn't mentaly sound when he did it, so he'll serve a month in a hospital and be out. By the way, your not to set foot within five hundred feet of him. Have a good day".

[Red Panda]

Oh yeah. Reason people treat others bad is become mommy didn't hug them enough, or the fact they always got F's at school because teacher didn't like them, not the fact they never did the fucking work.

Scum that terroize do it because they love the attention and fear they get. It makes them feel important.

Make it so they do get punished and hurt badily every time they do it, they'll stop.

Because as is, someone murders someone, they get to have a nice long trial as their (Free) lawyers attempt to prove that he didn't mean to do it. Lots of pictures. Lots of coverage by various people. Then they get to go to a nice big playpen with like minded people where they basically get to do what they want while they wait to be released a year or so later where they do it again, because hey, they don't get any more attention. They are no longer the special people. So yeah, they do revert back to crime because 1: They get attention and 2: They will never get hurt doing it.


What does victims get? Bills. Lots and lots of bills, not to mention grief.

That Is NOT punishment.

Once again you show you don't know anything about prison or criminals. If you ever get jury duty please let them know your archaic and bizarre views on justice so you won't end up being picked.