Bert and Ernie agenda

[Andara Bledin]

I cannot fathom how a human rights issue can be degraded down to "someone's pet peeve."

^-.-^

[Rapscallion]

I don't see how it's assholery to simply not care about someone's pet peeve. It's near the knuckle to condemn someone as the enemy if you don't become an activist.

I'll generally go so far as to stay out of the way of those doing good, maybe with a nod to the effect that the person in question is doing good things, but there's no way I'm being dragged into their army on pain of ostracism.

On occasion I'll sign a petition, but I'm very leery of those after I started with Avaaz a while back. Woman being stoned in some middle eastern shithole? Signed up for that and signed the petition. Stop eating whales? Yup - all up for that.

Stop this right-wing media tycoon from taking over a media business and making it right-wing in a different country? Hang on a second - freedom of speech and being asked to interfere in another country's politics? I'm not really right-wing, but that went beyond the lines of decency as far as I was concerned.

I'm very careful about what I sign these days. Slight tangent, but that's another group demanding support all the time.

Rapscallion

[Gravekeeper]

The amount of energy defending assholery would be better spent not being an asshole.

That practically sums up every social and political problem in western civilization at the moment. >.>

[Sleepwalker]

*snippety snip snip*
I suspect the majority of those fine, upstanding citizens concerned about so much that they came up with the above quotables didn't live in an environment with so many causes to support.

Rapscallion

And it is easier to say, I don't care about the polar bears than to agree that polar bears shouldn't be going extinct? Or, when someone mentions polar bears, it is easier to go off on a whinge about how people keep asking you to care about things, rather than just, y'know, saying 'yes, that sucks'. Cry me a river.

Or, my personal favourite, 'starving two year old orphan girls with no legs are being raped whilst being burned alive, how dare you ask me to care about some guy being fired for getting married!' The amount of energy defending assholery would be better spent not being an asshole. And that is the limit of what is being asked of you. Don't be an asshole, and vote for some non assholes every couple years.

Voting once every one or two years is a hell of a lot less work than the 'fine upstanding citizens' did during the holocaust, enlightenment, and democratic resurgence. I think you can manage.

[Gravekeeper]

Now, what groups have what rights is part of a larger issue, but within context of this thread, it's actually pretty black and white. There is no reason other than bigotry to prevent two people of the same expressed gender to enter into a marriage contract.

^ That right there.

We're talking about a human rights issue, not a pet cause. You don't have to wave a flag or donate money or anything to that affect. But saying you don't give a rats ass reflects pretty poorly.

I didn't have to march or wave or a flag or anything during the gay marriage debate up here in Canada that led to it being legalized. I just went "Yeah, you're right, that's fair." and agreed.

[Hyena Dandy]

Well, its not your problem. Its not hurting you. Its my problem because its hurting me. ANd as it is my problem, its my duty to try to convince you. Otherwise I would be a pretty poor activist, wouldn't I?

[PepperElf]

I think that most people wouldn't have a problem if it was "I don't give a fuck" but you said you oppose it, not that you don't give a fuck and that your reason for opposing it is spurious.

i can be both.
and if it offends others... let them be offended.

really i have to remind myself, and i should have reminded myself earlier... if someone else is offended that i disagree with their viewpoint, don't support what they do - or what they want me to, or if they disagree with my reasons.... it's not MY problem.

[Nyoibo]

this is probably more where i'm at. which is what others are failing to grasp i suspect.

they may feel their cause is "the right one" but it's not the only one. I have other causes that i've chosen to give my support to. if it bothers you that your own personal cause isn't on my list... that's really not MY problem. Even if it offends you.

I think that most people wouldn't have a problem if it was "I don't give a fuck" but you said you oppose it, not that you don't give a fuck and that your reason for opposing it is spurious.

[PepperElf]

Similarly with causes - there are thousands of them. I can't care about everything going. I'm suffering from compassion fatigue. Just because I'm not an activist for one person's particular preference doesn't mean to say I hate them and their works. There's only so much fuck I can give.

this is probably more where i'm at. which is what others are failing to grasp i suspect.

they may feel their cause is "the right one" but it's not the only one. I have other causes that i've chosen to give my support to. if it bothers you that your own personal cause isn't on my list... that's really not MY problem. Even if it offends you.

[Andara Bledin]

There's not a lot to remember in the cause of human rights.

Don't trample or allow others to trample the rights of other people.

Now, what groups have what rights is part of a larger issue, but within context of this thread, it's actually pretty black and white. There is no reason other than bigotry to prevent two people of the same expressed gender to enter into a marriage contract.

^-.-^

[Rapscallion]

"The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush. It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment."

"Above all, the prophets remind us of the moral state of a people: Few are guilty, but all are responsible."

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."

All excellent soundbites. And?

See, for me it's like health issues. If you read any popular media, you're going to find a celebrity trying to persuade you to look out for symptoms of this disease or that disease because it affected them or their family. People trying to 'raise awareness of' conditions you've not heard of before. The next day, same again for a different condition. Just how many self-checks can you do and remember to look for?

Similarly with causes - there are thousands of them. I can't care about everything going. I'm suffering from compassion fatigue. Just because I'm not an activist for one person's particular preference doesn't mean to say I hate them and their works. There's only so much fuck I can give.

Sure, there are good reasons to support a cause, including the one mentioned here. How do I weigh it against the weekly email from Avaaz? You know, things like women being sentenced to be stoned to death because they were raped - that sort of lack-of-fun thing. Are the whales going to end up extinct? Oops - the focus has gone to polar bears last I saw. Are Nestle still giving away free powdered milk to force African families to depend on their wares? Is there yet another war in the shithole that's the middle east? Are the corrupt authorities still enabling famine in the poorer regions of Africa? Are people in China still being imprisoned in hard labour camps for dissenting against the government?

I suppose that's a more generic comment, rather than the specific item for debate. I think it should go a little way towards explaining my personal mindset.

I suspect the majority of those fine, upstanding citizens concerned about so much that they came up with the above quotables didn't live in an environment with so many causes to support.

Rapscallion

[Andara Bledin]

that's the problem with that quote... your definition of "evil" isn't the same as everyone elses.

I don't want to live in a world where those who allow a group of people to be oppressed and abused for no reason other than that they happen to have one thing different than the rest of us aren't considered evil.

^-.-^

[Rageaholic]

why should you decide for me what is good and bad?
who made you the ruler of what is right and wrong?

It depends.

If you don't give a rats ass one way or another, I see nothing wrong with that. I mean, I never really cared about gay marriage until a couple of years ago when I realized "why can't they get married?". I admit the concept seemed wierd to me and I can't say I'd ever be crazy about it. But I might as well support their rights to it since it doesn't affect anyone but them. I mean like you said, who are we to decide what's right for anyone else? Isn't that what you're doing if you're against their right to get married?

If you don't care about the issue, that's one thing, but if you're against giving them the right to marry, than you're basically telling them what's right for them.

[Gravekeeper]

and again the false claim that there won't be lawsuits. i already showed there have been. and provided links.

Lawsuits are not precedents. This is what you are failing to grasp. You seriously think the supreme court would ever rule in favour of such a thing? Religious freedom is guranteed by your constitution. Much as it is up here in Canada. Where we have gay marriage ( and have had it for a while now ) and where the law clearly states no religious institution can be compelled to perform a gay marriage against its will. And this is Canada, the socialist liberal dystopia. =p

You can file a lawsuit for any god damn stupid thing you want, it doesn't mean you're actually going to win or even have it make it to court. Especially if its in violation of the constitution.

There is zero chance of your scenario unfolding and I honestly don't understand how you can believe it would unfold anywhere in the US. I'm not even American and I can see quite easily that such a thing would never, ever happen there. The country would flip it's shit.

So yeah, new reason please. If you just don't give a shit, fine, just come out and say so. But your current argument holds no water and your insistence on clinging to it is reflecting poorly on you honestly.

[PepperElf]

yes i know it was quoted earlier that's why i brought it back up.

that's the problem with that quote... your definition of "evil" isn't the same as everyone elses. and i do not have to go by your word as if you're god. that's what you're not getting. just as you try to tell me i can't decide what's right for you... you too are not the lord of all with the right to decide for me what i shoud and shouldn't support or what i should and shouldn't call good and evil.




and yes i know the definition of the word, just perhaps not all the spelling combinations of it. but apparently for not going allow with the crowd i'm declaring myself better than everyone else... which if anything seems to be the same thing i'm getting from a lot of people here so that's bollocks too.


and again the false claim that there won't be lawsuits. i already showed there have been. and provided links.