Oh but it's okay because....

[jackfaire]

Oh but it's okay that he is sexist that's how he was raised

Oh but it's okay that she believes her husband to be her lord and master it's the time she grew up in

I hate that the "because of how they were raised, grew up, etc" excuses that basically say you can be any type of bad person you want to be and it's okay because you were raised that way and apparently you are incapable of noticing the many people who are nothing like that.

[DrFaroohk]

Well there is a certain truth to that. I was raised with certain beliefs that I know are incorrect but still can't shake them. Mild sexism and racism. I don't act on it though. I suppose that's the main difference. I was raised believing that gays and blacks and whatever else are lesser people. i can't just turn the switch off but I can realize that I do not know everything and am open to actual, ya know, thought.

[jackfaire]

I am talking about the people that use it as an excuse to act on those things along with all of the people that use those to excuse bad behavior.

Oh it's okay that they were gay bashing it's how they were raised.

[Mishi]

Oh it's okay that they were gay bashing it's how they were raised.

I hear that one quite frequently, my response is "Well, they're an adult now and they should know better." It usually ends up in a discussion about why I disagree with them, and how if they're going to use the Bible to excuse their bad behaviour, that they're not allowed to eat cheeseburgers, bacon or shellfish, and they're not allowed to wear blended fibre clothes. Here, let me check your tags for you. Well you're going to have to take that off, oh and that too...

The other ones I hate: *Sexist comment* "Oh he/she doesn't really mean that, it's just how they were raised." So? Those facts have been frequently disproven in front of them, perhaps they should learn some critical thinking.

[fireheart17]

I hear that one quite frequently, my response is "Well, they're an adult now and they should know better." It usually ends up in a discussion about why I disagree with them, and how if they're going to use the Bible to excuse their bad behaviour, that they're not allowed to eat cheeseburgers, bacon or shellfish, and they're not allowed to wear blended fibre clothes. Here, let me check your tags for you. Well you're going to have to take that off, oh and that too...

If you check my thread regarding the preachers, you'll be amazed at how that group got around that argument. Their ENTIRE belief system is backed up purely by the New Testament, which apparaently makes it ok for them to spew homophobic, sexist and racist/xenophobic rants. Ironically enough, despite a lot of their sexist views towards WOMEN showing up, the ringleader of that group's MOTHER tried to defend their views on Facebook and was promptly shot down

[Mytical]

I'll add to those "He/she was raised in a crime ridden area..they had to steal/etc" nobody wants to blame themselves for what they do. It is always somebody elses fault.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Or, something that often comes up in murder trials; "He/she had a terrible childhood; he/she was abused/beaten/bullied and that's why he/she killed someone.

Yeah, right; and that's why everyone else who was abused/beaten/bullied goes around killing people willy nilly... oh yeah, they don't. So much for that excuse. It might be a factor, but to use it as an excuse is just stupid.

[LexiaFira]

in response to the OP
no its not ok, but it does EXPLAIN alot. And also means that this was taught to the person growing up and alot of "unlearning" will be needed if its to be corrected. but that is for a therapist or psychiatrist to say/do, this is just an observational thought.

just because (reason) doesn't mean its ok.
pfh, i was raised by an emotionally abusive father thus learned how to manipulate others that way, but doesn't mean its ok for me to do it. in fact i went years going nuts trying to figure out how to over ride what i learned because its not ok. relating this on a personal experience

[Hyena Dandy]

The second example is different from the first. Since the second example is about how she approaches a relationship. If that's the relationship the woman wants, (because she was raised that way) that's the relationship she should have. If someone's trying to impose that, that's not cool.

[Mishi]

@Fireheart: If they bring up Paul's teachings, I ask them about how they cut through all his waffling to find the truth and then say something like "Have you read his opinion on men with long hair?" or "What about his comment on most women lacking the will to learn?" and my personal favourite: "How are your abusive rantings and behaviour modeling the verse 'Love thy neighbour as thyself?' and how do you think it will affect other's opinions about your religion?" Doesn't always end the argument, but it does make them think. I'm pretty happy that one of my most homophobic friends has been given enough opportunities to think, that he's now in support of marriage equality even though he will always personally find homosexuality 'icky'.

[fireheart17]

I'm pretty happy that one of my most homophobic friends has been given enough opportunities to think, that he's now in support of marriage equality even though he will always personally find homosexuality 'icky'.

Not to derail the thread too much, but my personal favourite argument towards people against gay marriage is that "gay people are not being rounded up and forced to watch "normal" marriage ceremonies and neither will you be rounded up and forced to watch a gay marriage ceremony". My other argument asks them to consider that the "sanctity" of marriage is in fact contradicted by a passage in the New Testament which refers to families being torn apart.

[jackfaire]

in response to the OP
no its not ok, but it does EXPLAIN alot. And also means that this was taught to the person growing up and alot of "unlearning" will be needed if its to be corrected. but that is for a therapist or psychiatrist to say/do, this is just an observational thought.

That's the thing though if I was the way my parents raised me I would be a homophobic, sexist, abusive dad.

I know those things are wrong because I have eyes and ears I can see that not everyone is that way. To me that is what makes those excuses so worthless. Even as reason's they don't hold much water because unless the person is in therapy actively trying to change then it's not even a reason.

[gremcint]

Ok he was raised to be sexist. I was raised to beat the shit out of sexist assholes.

[guywithashovel]

When I was in college and still living at home, a woman we went to church with was a manhater because of her relationship with her ex-husband. Oddly enough, my mom thought that was okay, because "You would probably not like women very well if you had a bad relationship with one, would you?" Actually, I don't base my view on a group of people that constitutes half the world's population based on my relationship with one or even a few.

Then again, this church sort of encouraged this type of attitude. The pastor was one of those guys who likes to try to impress women with how politically correct he could be by making wisecracks about men's stereotypical ineptitudes

[blas87]

One of my uncles was a known dickhead and womanizer as a younger man (not abusive, just a user and manwhore) and it was no surprise he married a woman he met during the War because women of this race are known for being very subservient and waiting and foot on their men.

So it's always been more of a joke in our family that they always knew he joined the service just to marry a girl of that race and take her home to be his new mommy.