Youth group leaders controlling the lives of their youth

[Jaden]

As many of you know, some of my friends are members of what we would call the religious right, and there are times when I certainly don't enjoy hanging out with these particular friends of mine. That's not really relevant, I suppose, but they're youth group leaders at the church I used to go to, and I overheard them discussing a situation they had to deal with recently.

Now, I should mention, this is a church youth group. They have no power over the people who attend, it's totally voluntary, etc. The leaders' jobs are to teach the teens, plan events, etc. That's it. I will admit that this might be a bit of a gray area, but I'm still going to disagree with they're attitude.

Somehow, they found out about an "inappropriate" text message conversation between one of the teenagers who attends. I'm not going to accuse them of looking through his phone, but I have no idea how they found out about this. The guy is 17, so, more than old enough to think for himself. They, along with the main leader of the group, for all intents and purposes forbade him from speaking to the girl again to "keep him from sin." Tonight, they saw him having a flirty comment conversation on Facebook with her, and so alerted the main leader of the group and confronted him once again, telling him that what he was doing was wrong (as I understand it). I don't know how inappropriate the conversation was either time, whether it was just flirting or straight up phone sex or what, but it doesn't really matter to me.

I mean, I get it, to some extent. You're one of his Bible teachers, you feel responsible for his actions to some extent, and he's doing something you think is wrong. Fine. Then talk to him about it, give him your opinion, and if he listens to you, he listens to you. If he doesn't, he doesn't. That's up to him to decide, and you can't be hovering over him like his mother or his nanny. I don't think it's any of their business at all.

I don't know, maybe I'm overreacting, but it's stuff like that that made me stop going to church, people harping on the slightest thing they see as an imperfection in you and telling you you'd better fix it and get right with God, and bitch bitch bitch. I am right with God - who are you to tell me I'm not? I do things that you don't agree with - then don't do them. Me, I'm not insecure about my relationship with God, and I don't think having a sex drive is going to come in between me and God.

What do you guys think? Am I overreacting and reading too much into it? I don't have all the details, just the conversation I overheard. These are, by the way, people who also refuse to continue reading a book series I got them into, which they all really enjoyed, but stopped reading due to the "temptation" of the sex scenes The series, by the way, was A Song Of Ice And Fire, and if any of you are familiar with it (it is phenomenal), you know that most of the sex scenes have nothing to do with sex anyways, and are really about power or other themes, or are just flat out disgusting in ways that nobody would enjoy. It's just a stupid and immature attitude to take, and the puritanical white-washed bubble they live in, and that they apparently enforce on others now, really annoys and bothers me.

[Andara Bledin]

First, I'm with you over being suspicious of how the hell they know about the text conversation. I can't really think of any plausible scenario that doesn't involve some invasion of privacy or him being a complete fool and telling people about it.

I also agree that if they're as heavy-handed as you indicate, all they're going to do is drive the kid away, not steer him straight, or whatever it is they think they're doing.

^-.-^

[Slytovhand]

Well, the thing about religion, is that they always think they are 'right', and if a god is involved, then they think they know what that god thinks. Usually, such religious people have the opinion that they have a duty to bring people to the 'right' side (somehow). If that person also happens to be a group leader, they see it as their responsibility to ensure that anyone they have any sort of control over (ie, group members) is brought to the right side. It is, in effect, their job - if not their moral imperative.

The boy, by being a part of this group, has also (effectively - at least in their minds) chosen to be there, and also to 'submit' to their greater wisdom and understanding - both of the god, and the religion in general.

So, telling this boy what is right and wrong is what they're obviously going to do.

Do I, personally, agree with it? Hell no! But I see why they're doing it.

If you ask them who is responsible for that boy, they'll tell you they are - and that it is they who'll feel guilty if the boy sins (and ends up in hell). That is - it's all their problem - not the kids! (oh, the kids are too young to understand!!!!)

Just point out that Jesus forgave sinners - and will only forgive them if they are truly repentant and accept God in their heart... blind obedience to a group leader is not what God or Jesus wants... (and, also mention - if their forcing the boy away from the group, and from Jesus and God, by coming down all heavy-handed - then it is those group leaders who will be 100% responsible for it!)

[Rageaholic]

Reminds me of something that happened when I was involved in a high school youth group. The youth leaders dicovered that the teens had myspaces. So to "show us" that what we post on the internet can be seen by the world, they made a slide show of everyone's "offensive" posts and showed it to the group. Of course they weren't "judging" anyone, they were letting the posts speak for themselves.

And they wonder why people are so alienated with the church.

[bex1218]

If its basic flirting, theres nothing wrong with that. If its more sexualized, well slightly more understanding on the church's part (it being a sin and all ) . But what bugs me is how the hell they got the texts that is between 2 people. Only people who should be getting into the business of the kid, is the parents. Not youth group leaders (until the parents tell the youth leaders). Forbiding him is gonna make matters worse. Hell, most kids that age don't listen to their parents when they forbade them from seeing the person (I know I didn't, had to learn for myself. I actually only talk to 3 of everyone that my dad hated and "forbade" me to see).

[HYHYBT]

It's not the same thing, really... but this reminds me of one of the few specific moments I remember from Sunday School when I was a teenager. The exact question escapes me, but the intended lesson was about living your faith, and the teacher asked something along the lines of whether you can be a faithful Christian and own a bar. Since I didn't (and don't) believe drinking to be sinful and had never heard it preached against at that church, I didn't see a conflict, and said so. The problem was that, by "bar," I was thinking along the lines of "Cheers," and he was thinking of the sort with strippers.

(If individual posts here required titles, this one's would be "Why I Almost Never Spoke in Sunday School.")

[Jaden]

I should probably mention that, while I do have my issues with these friends of mine, I really don't think they're the types to go looking through someone's phone. More likely, one of the other members of the youth group did it out of mischief, found the conversation, and told them about it.

Bex made another good point - don't they know that forbidding a 17 year old, with hormones bursting out of every pore, from anything, especially anything sexual, will just make him more drawn to it?

Anyways, as I've said, I have no idea how explicit the texting conversation was. I personally don't think that a lot of things that most churches (including this one) preaches as wrong are really wrong, and sex before marriage is one of them. But even if I did, I don't think it's any of their business whether or not he's doing stuff like that. That's for his parents to deal with.

[LadyBarbossa]

I used to belong to a church and was very involved in the youth group from the time I was 16 to about 20. I find I'm a much happier person since I stopped and made my own decisions. As some have said, we can't form a completely valid opinion on this since we don't know the content of the actual texts and Facebook conversation. I'm guessing it was probably something most of us would consider a little spicy, but nothing more. Since the teen in question is there voluntarily, I think all they're going to accomplish by confronting him over this 'issue' is to drive him away from the church like so many before him. What he does or doesn't do with people sexually between him, the other persons involved, and God. If he really does feel convicted that any such acts are wrong, it's his conscience and no one else's. (Unless of course, you get 'accidental' babies involved, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms)

And to the OP, how on earth did I know you were going to say it was the Song of Ice and Fire series before you even did? I'm only just finishing with Game of Thrones now, but yeah, you'd probably have to be at least a little weird to get turned on by the sex scenes. I'm not sure where temptation would come into play unless we have some sick people on our hands

[wolfie]

The exact question escapes me, but the intended lesson was about living your faith, and the teacher asked something along the lines of whether you can be a faithful Christian and own a bar. Since I didn't (and don't) believe drinking to be sinful and had never heard it preached against at that church, I didn't see a conflict, and said so. The problem was that, by "bar," I was thinking along the lines of "Cheers," and he was thinking of the sort with strippers.

Fail for the group leader by not specifying what kind of bar - after all, there are so many. Bonus points for you if you cited Jesus' first miracle (water to wine at the wedding feast) in your reasoning - clearly He was not opposed to serving alcohol.

[HYHYBT]

I was thinking along those lines when I spoke up initially, but since he wasn't thinking of the selling alcohol aspect of a bar, but of encouraging lust, it wasn't really relevant.

[Jaden]

What he does or doesn't do with people sexually between him, the other persons involved, and God. If he really does feel convicted that any such acts are wrong, it's his conscience and no one else's. (Unless of course, you get 'accidental' babies involved, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms)

And to the OP, how on earth did I know you were going to say it was the Song of Ice and Fire series before you even did? I'm only just finishing with Game of Thrones now, but yeah, you'd probably have to be at least a little weird to get turned on by the sex scenes. I'm not sure where temptation would come into play unless we have some sick people on our hands

That's exactly how I feel. It's up to him to rectify his conscience with God, not them. If he thinks it's a problem, he can deal with it, and ask for help if necessary. If he doesn't ,he doesn't - wow, a 17 year old with hormones, whoever heard of that?

As for Game of Thrones, I certainly don't think they're sick people, I just tihnk they have this annoying knee-jerk reaction to sex in the media. Like, there's sex in this book, so therefore it MUST be smut and I shouldn't be reading smut, I should be keeping my eyes and senses "holy" It's basically just elitism played out in its most annoying form.