Fuck Inspiration Porn

[TheHuckster]

But people can be conditioned to think consciously. Some may take more work than others, but they can be taught. Ultimately, that's what it takes to overcome depression. Doctors and friends can't force you, they can only guide you. Medication can't fix your problems. At best, it clears your mind enough for you to concentrate on what you need to do. But you still have to make that progress yourself.

Agreed, but that positive thinking is far easier to accomplish before the event than after. You've told us that once you chose to not give up you found sources of inspiration uplifting, but I don't think you ever told us just what made you finally make that choice. You say you had a friend, but even you admit it's still up to you to "go through the door."

What would you say or do to someone else who was struggling like you did that would teach them to overcome their struggles, knowing that inspirational stories and uplifting messages is only half of the puzzle?

[crashhelmet]

That's only a partial definition of false equivalence. The rest of the definition includes precisely the faulty logic I described in my last post.

Without recognizing and acknowledging that fact, there is no moving forward.

^-.-^

Please explain and use evidence from my own posts that supports this, rather than throw out a blanket argument.

[crashhelmet]

Coming in late to this, of course, but I've been following this thread for a while, and finally want to add my 2 cents.

First of all, "inspiration porn" is, in and of itself, not a bad thing if it reaches out to those who react positively to it, which I think it can do. However, just like every thing else in this world, there isn't any one "silver bullet" that reaches out to everyone.

It's most definitely not a choice. How you react to something is a reflection of your own personality, which is defined by prior experiences and innate properties of yourself. One could be "conditioned" to react to something a certain way, but when something like a traumatic event which changes your life occurs, it's pointless to expect someone to change so they react to something positively, regardless of its intentions.

Some people react positively to close friends helping them out.

Some people react positively to a particularly good doctor or psychologist.

Some people react positively to religion.

Some people react positively to joining a support group.

And, yes, some people react positively to an inspirational story of someone else's success and overcoming their challenges.

What this argument seems to come down to is you, crashhelmet, say if everyone reacted positively to "inspiration porn" then we'd solve a lot of problems with those who are greatly discouraged from their disabilities.

That "if" is very unrealistic. It's about as pointless an argument as, "If everyone just shook hands and forgot eachother's differences, there would be peace in the world." You can't force someone to react positively to something just because that is its intention. You're likely to get the same reaction as the clerks on CS who complain when customers tell them to "Smile!"

Yes, I wish everyone could look at an inspirational message the same way. I wish everyone was free of depression. I wish everyone was free of self-deprecation, poor self-esteem, and insecurity. I truly wish that everyone had exceedingly high levels of self-confidence, self-esteem, self-res[ect, and self-reliance. Just imagine how much greater this world would be if we did.

But people can be conditioned to think consciously. Some may take more work than others, but they can be taught. Ultimately, that's what it takes to overcome depression. Doctors and friends can't force you, they can only guide you. Medication can't fix your problems. At best, it clears your mind enough for you to concentrate on what you need to do. But you still have to make that progress yourself.

[Andara Bledin]

No, it's not. False equivalence is saying there's no difference between a man, a dog, and a blue whale because they're all mammals.

That's only a partial definition of false equivalence. The rest of the definition includes precisely the faulty logic I described in my last post.

Without recognizing and acknowledging that fact, there is no moving forward.

^-.-^

[TheHuckster]

I'm saying the only difference between taking a statement as positive or negative is how you choose to interpret it.

Coming in late to this, of course, but I've been following this thread for a while, and finally want to add my 2 cents.

First of all, "inspiration porn" is, in and of itself, not a bad thing if it reaches out to those who react positively to it, which I think it can do. However, just like every thing else in this world, there isn't any one "silver bullet" that reaches out to everyone.

It's most definitely not a choice. How you react to something is a reflection of your own personality, which is defined by prior experiences and innate properties of yourself. One could be "conditioned" to react to something a certain way, but when something like a traumatic event which changes your life occurs, it's pointless to expect someone to change so they react to something positively, regardless of its intentions.

Some people react positively to close friends helping them out.

Some people react positively to a particularly good doctor or psychologist.

Some people react positively to religion.

Some people react positively to joining a support group.

And, yes, some people react positively to an inspirational story of someone else's success and overcoming their challenges.

What this argument seems to come down to is you, crashhelmet, say if everyone reacted positively to "inspiration porn" then we'd solve a lot of problems with those who are greatly discouraged from their disabilities.

That "if" is very unrealistic. It's about as pointless an argument as, "If everyone just shook hands and forgot eachother's differences, there would be peace in the world." You can't force someone to react positively to something just because that is its intention. You're likely to get the same reaction as the clerks on CS who complain when customers tell them to "Smile!"

[crashhelmet]

Aha. Right here. I think that this might be the source of the entire contentious nature of this thread.

I believe it is as well. We've said in many other threads that some people just want to be offended. Whether it's people fighting over whether or not we say "Happy Holidays" or "Merry Christmas," someone playing the race card, or what have you.

Comparing the depressed to those people is probably going to offend some of you too. But the truth of the matter is that it really isn't any different. It's an ingrained defense mechanism. Which will lead me to my reply to your next point.

You're assuming that people make a conscious choice of how to interpret what people say, when that's so far from the truth, you'd need to account for the curvature of the earth to see it. People interpret things based on myriad different variables, from personality to delivery to many other factors. It's rare that people actually stop to consciously think about how to interpret it - and usually, that only happens when you can't tell how the person means it.

Maybe that's the problem? We let our subconscious reaction run with it. We don't stop to say "Hey... Maybe they're right." Look at arguments you have with people where later on, after you've calmed down, you realize that you were wrong. Or maybe the other party comes to you and admits that they were wrong. That's from conscious thought.

Why can't we start teaching and training ourselves to put conscious thought to everything else? Build that mental discipline.

There was one time when I screwed something up while working for my mother, and she was in a bad mood. She snapped, "You know, you've got the Midas Touch in reverse - everything you touch turns to shit." To her, it was a blowing-off-steam comment, and she didn't really mean it. But to me, because I was already down (because I screwed up), that comment killed me. I was in a funk for a week before I snapped out of it (and that's saying something, because I'm a generally upbeat person who gets out of bad moods within a day or three). I mentioned it to her years later, and she didn't even remember the incident - it meant that little to her. It carried as much weight to her as saying, "You're so full of shit, your eyes are brown." When she realized how deeply the comment had hurt me, she apologized, and our relationship improved a bit thereafter.

I'm glad you worked it out. I had a similar falling out with my mom and she passed away before we could resolve it.

You can't always control how you receive what other people are sending. So, on the flip side, it helps to control the message you're sending with care when you know you're dealing with someone who is depressed. Being rude, crass, demeaning, disparaging, or otherwise rude is massively unlikely to improve the matter.

I'll agree to a point. It's a case by case situation and you truly have to know the person and their buttons. Some people need help, some need hope, some need both. Some people need a kick in the ass.

[crashhelmet]

The fact that people are inconsistent in how they interpret the same thing nor the fact that people will sometimes react to one thing in the same way as another thing does not make those things equal in any way, shape, or form.

That's the very definition of false equivalence.

^-.-^

No, it's not. False equivalence is saying there's no difference between a man, a dog, and a blue whale because they're all mammals.

I'm saying the only difference between taking a statement as positive or negative is how you choose to interpret it.

[AmbrosiaWriter]

I was at a really low point one time. Those "inspirational" posters would've only made me worse at that time in my life, I know, but luckily they weren't really around at that point. I managed to get out of it, but not only on my own. I mean, it was sort of by myself, but this was by me realizing those that I had connections to that would suffer because of my actions.

So I've, for the most part, recovered. I've also learned that I am not a "kick in the ass" kind of motivator. I have a lot of friends who are hurting for varying reasons. The vast majority respond way better to me going to them, holding out my hand (metaphorically) and saying something along the lines of, "Hey, I know you're hurting, and that you feel like you can't get up. So I'm going to help you get up, and I'll walk with you until you feel like you can walk on your own again, okay?"

I couldn't imagine going to any one of my friends that I stand tall for and instead saying, "What the hell is wrong with you? I managed to get over my suicidal tendencies without a hand to hold, why the hell can't you?"

Because I know that if someone had said that to me when I was in that low, it would've driven me deeper down.

So I don't. I think that having a strong proclivity for empathy (to the level where my psychiatrist started to believe that I was a true empath and still does believe it) also allows me to respond to my friends in crisis in ways that they can respond to the best.

So yes, guilt tripping "inspirational" posters can do a lot of harm. Some might do good, but they have to be framed not in a "They can do it, why can't you" but more in a "Look, you can do this" and perhaps offer better information on how those who don't feel like they can truly do it alone can find help to get them on the right track.

[Nekojin]

It all comes down to how you decide to interpret it.

Aha. Right here. I think that this might be the source of the entire contentious nature of this thread.

You're assuming that people make a conscious choice of how to interpret what people say, when that's so far from the truth, you'd need to account for the curvature of the earth to see it. People interpret things based on myriad different variables, from personality to delivery to many other factors. It's rare that people actually stop to consciously think about how to interpret it - and usually, that only happens when you can't tell how the person means it.

There was one time when I screwed something up while working for my mother, and she was in a bad mood. She snapped, "You know, you've got the Midas Touch in reverse - everything you touch turns to shit." To her, it was a blowing-off-steam comment, and she didn't really mean it. But to me, because I was already down (because I screwed up), that comment killed me. I was in a funk for a week before I snapped out of it (and that's saying something, because I'm a generally upbeat person who gets out of bad moods within a day or three). I mentioned it to her years later, and she didn't even remember the incident - it meant that little to her. It carried as much weight to her as saying, "You're so full of shit, your eyes are brown." When she realized how deeply the comment had hurt me, she apologized, and our relationship improved a bit thereafter.

You can't always control how you receive what other people are sending. So, on the flip side, it helps to control the message you're sending with care when you know you're dealing with someone who is depressed. Being rude, crass, demeaning, disparaging, or otherwise rude is massively unlikely to improve the matter.

[ngc_7331]

It's all in how you as an individual interpret it. If I insult you while having a smile on my face, does it make it mean any less than if I have a scowl?

Yes, yes it does. If my friend tells me to go pound sand with a smirk on his face, I'll know he's just giving me a hard time and I'll flip him off and we'll laugh and move on. If he tells me to go pound sand with a scowl on his face and a cloud over his head, I'll know he's pissed and we may end up going a few rounds. Body language means a lot.

[Andara Bledin]

I cannot fathom how you keep failing to understand that everything you interpret is up to you and how you interpret it.

The fact that people are inconsistent in how they interpret the same thing nor the fact that people will sometimes react to one thing in the same way as another thing does not make those things equal in any way, shape, or form.

That's the very definition of false equivalence.

^-.-^

[BlaqueKatt]

Weak minded people accept what other people tell them. You're weak. You're a fuck up. You're a failure. You're a waste of resources. You're an embarrassment. You'd be nothing without me. You'll never find someone else that loves you. You'll never find someone else that puts up with you. This is your fault.

Some people hear these things so much that they convince themselves that they must be true. They quit instead of fight. This is how abusers maintain control.

and of course you're saying how we're weak minded is somehow helpful or inspirational and not like anyone else that says it?

[crashhelmet]

It makes it different.

I cannot fathom why you keep attempting to attribute false equivalency to things that are not equal.

^-.-^

I cannot fathom how you keep failing to understand that everything you interpret is up to you and how you interpret it.

Isn't that the whole basis of the Optimist vs Pessimist debate?

People have said in this very thread that they have interpreted their friends attempts at help as being pity and it made them feel worse.

It all comes down to how you decide to interpret it.

[Andara Bledin]

It's all in how you as an individual interpret it. If I insult you while having a smile on my face, does it make it mean any less than if I have a scowl?

It makes it different.

I cannot fathom why you keep attempting to attribute false equivalency to things that are not equal.

^-.-^

[crashhelmet]

Going on a limb here and asking whats the difference between someone telling you to go fuck yourself and a poster of someone with the slogan?

if someone irl, told me to go fuck myself I have real world clues to guage how to take it, if someone sends me a jpg with a smiling Mr T telling me to do likewise, hell it's just some joke poster.

Someone wishing you and all your loved ones harm in the form of a LoL cat just isn't as nasty as actually saying it, so I see the same in the reverse good intention messages.

It's all in how you as an individual interpret it. If I insult you while having a smile on my face, does it make it mean any less than if I have a scowl?