I don't want to argue about voting

[Andara Bledin]

so yeah, basically voter apathy pisses me off because democracies/ republics only work when the population actually friggan votes! otherwise you may as well toss up your hands and reinstate a monarchy.

I'm in this camp, myself.

I don't want only the young and the zealous doing the voting. That's like trying to usher in the age of Idiocracy.

[NecCat]

so yeah, basically voter apathy pisses me off because democracies/ republics only work when the population actually friggan votes! otherwise you may as well toss up your hands and reinstate a monarchy.

I'm in this camp, myself.

But if I don't have an opinion than I'm not going to vote.

I have voted in every provincial and federal election that I was able to, but I've never voted in municipal elections. I don't know the people who are running, I don't know what they stand for, I don't know how they feel about the issues, or what their issues are. I'm not 100% sure what the mayor and town council do, other than budgeting for town issues. I think town issues means potholes, parks, festivals and parades. I'm not that concerned about town issues to be honest.

I'm concerned about health care, police and emergency services, education, poverty, environmental issues, and personal freedoms. Those are all provincial and federal issues. The santa clause parade just isn't on my radar.

[the_std]

I'm not 100% sure what the mayor and town council do, other than budgeting for town issues. I think town issues means potholes, parks, festivals and parades. I'm not that concerned about town issues to be honest.

I would argue that it's every citizen's duty to do the research and keep themselves well-informed. Municipal elections may not seem like as big of a deal, but they have a more direct effect on your day-to-day life than the provincial or national elections would. Also, reading up on how city councils function, or what a mayor's purview is, may open your eyes to how important a municipal election actually IS, and show you what those people do for you and your fellow constituents.

[Andara Bledin]

I would argue that it's every citizen's duty to do the research and keep themselves well-informed. Municipal elections may not seem like as big of a deal, but they have a more direct effect on your day-to-day life than the provincial or national elections would. Also, reading up on how city councils function, or what a mayor's purview is, may open your eyes to how important a municipal election actually IS, and show you what those people do for you and your fellow constituents.

When I don't know, I research.

Some things are next to impossible to really understand without actual time investment into local politics, and I can understand not going that far.

But with the Internet, so very many things, including political and other records, are at our fingertips that most cases of lack of information aren't about the information not being available.

Local elections are actually very important to keeping your locality politically healthy, and in many cases will have a larger impact on your life than the big elections most people only ever turn up for.

[SongsOfDragons]

We're less than a year until the next General Election here in the UK. At this point I'm on the verge of either spoiling my ballot or voting for the Monster Raving Loonies. All the major parties suck massive custard slice wingwong and I live in a very, very Yellow area. >.<

I'm still gonna vote, 'cause I love voting. I just might not take it seriously.

[cindybubbles]

Oh god, really? Who would vote for Ford ( of any shape or size ) over Olivia Chow? >.>

Mom voted for Ford to spite Olivia Chow. She doesn't like the way Ms. Chow spends money, and would prefer someone who saved the city money instead.

Now that John Tory is going to be our new mayor, though, let's hope that he finds some middle ground.

[siead_lietrathua]

just chiming in that hells yes municipal/regional elections are damn important. municipal level government effects not just roadwork, but all vital infrastructure like public transit, hydro and water. it's your property taxes, your libraries, hospitals, fire stations, police, zoning, etc. provincial and federal may fund some of those ventures, but your municipal/ regional crew are the ones that do the work, and more importantly make the decisions.
if anything it's more vital to your day to day life to know what your mayor is doing than your prov/federal crew. i assume the states is similar in structure.

[NecCat]

...

...

...

So two hours on google tells me that my town council was involved in a legal battle with a bank in 1955 regarding a loan the town took out for some construction. It tells me that in 198? there was a large ongoing debate about the height of the train bridge vs the height of boats + boat trailers expected to pass through under them to the town docks. It tells me nothing else. I can't even find the names of our councillors or mayor.

The issues you guys have mentioned (hospitals, public transport, police and fire, hydro) they just don't exist here. My town has around 2800 residences, but <700 permanent residents. We have an OPP police station. If you call it it goes to a machine, telling you other numbers you can try to talk to actual policemen at different stations. We have volunteer firefighters, but no fire trucks. They come from other towns if we need them. Ditto the ambulances. There is obviously no public transportation, there is no animal control, no hydro plant. The water & sewer and garbage are run by the district, not the town (provincially regulated, if there's a problem you go to the MPP office). We have street lights, a park, no library (but I can get a card at a nearby town with my address), a rink, a curling club, no parking enforcement (or parking laws that I know of), no airport, no taxis, and no mcDonalds. It's just too small to have a lot of things. The crown land (ie hunting areas) is under federal control, ditto the lakes and rivers.

I don't think it's as easy to educate yourself, or as crucial to the day to day running of my life, as you guys do.

[Rageaholic]

^

Another thing is that a lot of politicians are dishonest about what their true intention is. That's not even counting the smear campaigns and blanket accusations. For example, our Governor Rick Snyder wanted to construct a new bridge connecting Detroit and Canada. This smear campaign targeting him said that the money was going out of tax payer dollars, but Snyder's side denied this. The bridge never went through and while I don't like Snyder, I'm convinced that the smear campaign was just some bullshit constructed by a business rival, but I'm not sure.

Another example of bullshit in action was a bill proposed to make it so that lottery winners on welfare would be kicked off of it. The proponents of the bill cited extreme examples in which those who won 4 million still received welfare, but didn't mention that according to the bill, those who won 1000 or more would be kicked off of welfare (the majority of winners win around that amount). That was obvious BS, but others aren't so obvious and I don't feel as informed enough to make a decision on certain issues.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I can make an informed decision on issues I'm familiar with, but there are some issues that confuse the hell out of me. That doesn't mean I won't vote (I almost always do), but I won't talk about my decision to vote because without fail, someone will want to tell me what an idiot I am for not seeing things the way they do.

[Andara Bledin]

I don't think it's as easy to educate yourself, or as crucial to the day to day running of my life, as you guys do.

Your particular situation is vanishingly rare, and notably outside of the "most cases" that I mentioned.

That doesn't mean I won't vote (I almost always do), but I won't talk about my decision to vote because without fail, someone will want to tell me what an idiot I am for not seeing things the way they do.

That's pretty much all I expect out of anyone. The attempt to understand the issues, and the effort to vote on those that are understood enough to mark.

[siead_lietrathua]

So two hours on google tells me that my town council was involved...

googling my township name got the official website as a first hit, with a list of councilors, minutes for their meetings, current issues going on, etc. during elections each mayoral candidate was easy to research either online, or by reading the local rag. and i live in a land of retirees and farmers jammed between small 'cities'. it's not exactly a booming metropolis.

if your town hasn't gotten into the modern era of internet, it's easy enough to swing by town hall and get campaign information, or meeting minutes. the candidates tend to have debates. people go door to door, or stuff mailboxes. it's in the papers, might even be on local radio if you have one. it's not super secret information.

edit: oh, and even if you don't have hospitals or transit, your council is the ones that would decide if you eventually do get those services. they still also decide on all the bylaws, tax rates, road work and etc that can effect your property and home. so it IS still important. if someone shows up at your door with a new bylaw infraction notice, it's the town council that would have voted that new bylaw in.


@Rageaholic

it's ok if people don't agree with how a person votes. that's kinda the point of politics, to banter ideas and change minds. but it is important TO vote, because again if we don't the system inevitably fails. you cannot have a representative government if the populace doesn't vote for who they want to represent them. and if people made an effort to be informed, things like smear campaigns would lose a lot of their power. because it's hard to smear around bullshit when people have already informed themselves about what is going on.


look, i get that an individual can think "one vote doesn't matter, so why should i put mine in?" but when you have 30-70% of the population all doing it, it makes a drastic change. so the individuals need to get it in their heads to vote, that it's important to vote. because if that gap of non-voters lessens it will make a huge friggan jump towards an actual, fair democracy/republic.

and, again, if you don't care if your democracy is fair and well-represented... might as well go back to a monarchy.

[Food Lady]

even if you consider it a right, why would you give up a right voluntarily?

I suppose it was a rhetorical question, but I'd like to answer anyway:
--because it's a right I don't care about
--because my life is largely not about my own rights, though there are a few I do claim
--because politics don't fix the world's ills and never will

[HYHYBT]

I have trouble finding enough direct information on a lot of the local races to make an informed decision, too. Often, there aren't any big official differences between candidates. Some, though, I can pick up indirectly from people who do know (especially if one of those running was untrustworthy in a previous position) and filter. Far from perfect, but then, what isn't. If that fails, there's always going with the incumbent if I like the way relevant things have been and, for some races, party affiliation. Those are at least *something* more than not voting or tossing a coin.

[siead_lietrathua]

I suppose it was a rhetorical question, but I'd like to answer anyway:
1) because it's a right I don't care about
2) because my life is largely not about my own rights, though there are a few I do claim
3) because politics don't fix the world's ills and never will

i numbered the quote to make it easier to reply to.

1) all rights are something that should be cared about, whether we use them or not, whether we deem them useful or not. because at one point, they were NOT rights. people had to fight for them, maybe even die for them. we shouldn't take that history lightly.
edit to add: hell people are STILL fighting for their right to vote in states where they are trying to put in place voter ID laws.
2) if you are a female (as your name indicates) living in modern western society... your rights have largely affected your life. before women's rights we were still sold on the altar of marriage as property of out fathers.
right to education. right to equal work opportunities. etc. while you may not think about the rights that are there, that doesn't mean they haven't shaped your life.
3) while the current political system may not fix all the ills... it could get WORSE if we don't stand up as citizens and make our voices heard. look at the rights they are still fighting over in the stated when it comes to reproduction, religion, etc.

[SkullKing]

Where I live voting is considered a duty. It is mandatory, and if you do not vote you can be fined and blocked from a lot of stuff.

That being said besides the voting options of the canditates, one can vote "Blank" or "Null".

A blank vote says one is content with either of the options and is ok with whichever one wins.

A Null vote is an statement that one does not consider any of the canditates worthy of their vote.