Gay Marriage

[SportinGoods]

(I just came across this today, I know that the previous post tags are from august, and I'm sorry but I had to reply :P)

First off My personal views: I've dated both sexes (One could even say I've dated in between sexes) , Have never considered myself gay or bi-sexual, I've loved each one in their own right, as a person, not a gender. That being said, heres a summary of the ongoing debate I have running with my mother.

I remember a time when my mother told me at 13 (when concerned about my tomboyish ways) "Are you a lesbian? If you are I will still love you" She really needed to elaborate on that statement.

My mother is a conservative, religion will be taken out of the equation mainly because I think she has learned by now, that thumping the bible on my head doesn't have the desired effect. From what I can gather according to our arguments these are her main oppositions to gay marriage.

1> Gay marriage is detrimental to the conservative idea of a family unit. Without a mother and a father (Figure) the child raised will turn out emotionally scarred and twisted.
(Until there has been a significant study on the effect of same sex parents on child development she will not waiver on this idea)
2> The amount of estrogen and progesterone in the tap water (along with soy products) Is causing boys to become "femanized". This increase in estrogen supply has caused more people to become "unnaturally" gay. She refuses to pay taxes for the alleged "nancyfication" of American men.
3> The Lesbian and Gay community has "forced" their beliefs on the American culture and in one decade has made the unthinkable acceptable. Just the mere idea that they are proud of this makes her ill.
4> Being Gay is now a trend (see above)
5> The tax breaks from marriage between a man and a woman should not be extended to a same sex relationship.

Thats an extreme conservative point of view, not my own of course but offered for debate.

[tropicsgoddess]

I'm straight, but personally I think gay marriages should be legal and have the same rights that straight married couples have. We're all human, no matter if you like the opposite or same sex.

[Rapscallion]

Islamic law allows up to four wives. As far as I am aware, if a family with more than one wife comes from one of the islamic countries and resides in the UK, the wives are considered as being married to him for legal purposes.

Similar sort of thing.

Rapscallion

[BookstoreEscapee]

Interesting twist on the gay marriage debate...what happens when you want to get divorced?

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/Story?id=4347231&page=2

The short version is, lesbian couple got married in Toronto, had 2 children (both carried by the same partner), and now live in New York. They want to divorce, there is a custody dispute as well, and the judge assigned to the case in New York State refused to dismiss the suit. The one partner insists that the marriage should simply be considered invalid because NY State does not allow gay marriage, therefore in the eyes of the state, they were never married in the first place.

Sorry, but if you want the right to marry, you have to accept the rules of divorce. You can't say "We have the right to marry like everyone else," and then say, "We shouldn't have to go through the legal divorce process because the state we now live in doesn't recognize our marriage. We can just pretend it never happened." Sorry, shouldn't work that way. I can understand the argument that if the state doesn't recognize the marriage it seems a bit hypocritical for the state to then adjudicate the divorce, but that doesn't make the marriage nonexistent in Canada where it was originally performed. If they don't want NY State to adjudicate it, they should have to go through the Canadian court to resolve the issues.

[Sylvia727]

That's why it does, not why it should.

Oh...were we looking for common sense and reason in minds that couldn't be pryed open with a crowbar?

The only other argument I've ever heard (besides "wrong" and "tradition") is majority rule.

[BookstoreEscapee]

An underaged dead goat of the same gender!

Oh, the horror! What comes next on the slippery slope?

I think I'll marry the tree in my front yard...

[DexX]

"OMG he wants to marry a goat!"

An underaged dead goat of the same gender!

[BookstoreEscapee]

On the whole, Gay Marriage leads to Goat Marriage theme:

I came across this in a collection of jokes by various stand-up comedians.

We have this huge debate going on right now about same-sex marriage. There are people who are against it; there are people who are for it. Some people say, “Marriage is a union between a man and woman, and it’s always been that way, and it should always remain that way, and if we change it and it’s between two people of the same sex, then what’s next? Someone could marry a goat.” That’s where they go right away. These people scare me. And they think we’re weird. -Ellen DeGeneres

I like this one, too:

The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals, and 362 to heterosexuals. This doesn’t mean God doesn’t love heterosexuals; it’s just that they need more supervision. -Lynn Lavner

[Seshat]

And why should a line in a religious book dictate law in a country which states that one of its core values is the principle of a separation between church and state?

Because something like 70% of USA is Christian (don't quote me on that exact number). Since their religion tells them that it's icky, then they decide that they don't want it around them.

That's why it does, not why it should. If they care so much about separation of church and state, religious books should not affect laws (except perhaps to serve as inspiration, since many religious books contain historical laws).

As you said, logic doesn't hold.

[Spiffy McMoron]

Leviticus also says that you should not eat shell fish, sit on the same stool a menstruating woman has sat on, or re use a pot a dead lizard has fallen into. Leviticus also castrated himself long before anesthetic was invented. Now, tell me again why a single word of Leviticus is applicable to modern life?

True, but don't we all pick and choose what parts of the Bible was follow? Yes, I'll agree that what you listed is silly. But how do we distinguish what doesn't work (We shouldn't eat shellfish) to something that we all agree on (Thou shalt not kill/steal/etc.)?

For the record, I support equal right for homosexuals, but not because of out-of-context arguements and counter-arguements.

[lordlundar]

In terms of legal, I don't see the issue. Union is union. Marriage is a religious term though, so if a religion doesn't like it, then they don't have to refer to it as such. As well, a priest/minister/rabbi/etc. doesn't have to perform the ceremony if they do not wish to.

That said, it is a personal choice which is theirs alone. It is the couple's choice to get the legal status, and it's the religious leader's right to refuse religious recognition (though not to decry it). Anyone else pushing their beliefs into these particular peoples lives need to take a long walk off a VERY short pier as far as I'm concerned.

[Sylvia727]

And why should a line in a religious book dictate law in a country which states that one of its core values is the principle of a separation between church and state?

Because something like 70% of USA is Christian (don't quote me on that exact number). Since their religion tells them that it's icky, then they decide that they don't want it around them. There's no logic involved in the thought process at all. Of course, not all denominations and parishes are homophobic, and not all homophobics are Xian. But there is a pretty large crossover.

[Seshat]

I do believe it eventually comes down to a religious debate at its most basic form. In Leviticus the bible clearly states that "thou shall not lay with another man" (paraphrasing of course, i'll look it up word for in a second).

And why should a line in a religious book dictate law in a country which states that one of its core values is the principle of a separation between church and state?

[Saydrah]

Leviticus also says that you should not eat shell fish, sit on the same stool a menstruating woman has sat on, or re use a pot a dead lizard has fallen into. Leviticus also castrated himself long before anesthetic was invented. Now, tell me again why a single word of Leviticus is applicable to modern life?

Bible thumpers love to take one quote totally out of context and use it to meddle in the lives of others.

[DarthRetard]

I do believe it eventually comes down to a religious debate at its most basic form. In Leviticus the bible clearly states that "thou shall not lay with another man" (paraphrasing of course, i'll look it up word for in a second).