Teacher's using classrooms to promote their religious views

[HYHYBT]

at least with college classes (at most colleges), if you have a professor who does that, you have the choice to drop the class and request a refund (in many schools it is no questions asked as long as it is early enough, and even later in the semester there are appeals). I did that in an ethics class that it was obvious after the first week of class the professor's idea of ethics was the only ethical way of acting was to be Mormon (he is a great example of what is wrong with tenure, he has never received a good student review at the end of the semester and has over a 50% drop rate and yet he is still teaching).

A 50% drop rate benefits the school: it means people have paid for a class without getting credit, and therefore will have to pay for a replacement.

[Seifer]

Is this even a problem or is it just free speech? If it is just free speech would it be appropriate then for a teacher to push a pro-equality or pro-choice or (insert other controversial position here)?

I'm glad I wasn't drinking when I read this, otherwise I would have sprayed water all over my laptop.

It sure as shit isn't a "free speech" issue. Teachers are held to a higher standard than a regular douchewaffle on the street. A teacher can't go into a classroom and start spouting off their political, religious, and social views/opinions to their class. For one thing, it's forcing their opinions on a captive audience who may feel that they don't have the right or the opportunity to express their own viewpoints. For another thing, it's using their position of authority to persuade the students to think like them, instead of for themselves. This is especially true for younger kids who are still at the developmental stage where they take anything an adult says as The Truth.

It's annoying when it's blatant like in the linked article, but it also pisses me off when religious views are subtly sprinkled into the classroom. Apparently, Don't Laugh at Me is a very popular book for teaching acceptance of others in the classroom. The problem I have is that it contains that stupid, "GOD CREATED US ALL" message.

I remember looking at the book and listening to the accompanying song, feeling moved and a bit teary-eyed. Then it reached the ing religious message and I just about threw my chair. Way to ruin a perfectly good song/book about acceptance.

Hey, here's a shocker: you can teach acceptance without bringing any sort of deity into it.

I'm of a different opinion when it comes to social issues. I think it's fine to teach acceptance in the classroom, but others would still see that as "forcing opinions on the students." I think the safest route to take would be to only talk about a social issue if the students bring it up themselves. Then, the teacher could hold a class discussion on it and allow everyone to share their opinions and ideas.

[AdminAssistant]

I think that in K-12, teachers should try to be as unbiased as possible but shouldn't have to hide their opinions if asked. In other words, if a student asks their high school biology teacher, "What do you think about creationism vs. evolution?" I don't see any reason that the teacher shouldn't be able to say, "Well, I personally believe in evolution because of X, Y, and Z."

In college....we have a little more freedom. When we talk about government funding for the arts, I will tell the class that I think Gov. Brownback is a fucking idiot for getting rid of the Kansas Arts Commission. I will say that I think Neil LaBute is the most overrated playwright of the past 20 years and a misogynistic asshole. I don't really try to persuade them, and I don't punish those that don't agree with me, but I'm not going to hide my opinions. At some point, kids have to learn that sometimes people disagree with your world view and that's okay.

[PepperElf]

A teacher can't go into a classroom and start spouting off their political, religious, and social views/opinions to their class.

Especially if it's a state-funded establishment. Because then it can be interpreted as the government establishing a religion.

And quite frankly if I'm paying for a class I'm there to learn the subject, not be preached at.

I think that in K-12, teachers should try to be as unbiased as possible but shouldn't have to hide their opinions if asked. In other words, if a student asks their high school biology teacher, "What do you think about creationism vs. evolution?" I don't see any reason that the teacher shouldn't be able to say, "Well, I personally believe in evolution because of X, Y, and Z."

Even that they should probably stay away from. They're on school property and during class... someone's going to find a way to make them regret answering something other than "that's not really appropriate for the classroom."


I remember one of my teachers being asked "Who are you going to vote for?" for an upcoming election. She explained that she couldn't discuss it* because our parents might be mad if they knew. And this was a private school.

And I still think her answer was the right one to give. Just because we ask doesn't mean it should be answered inside the classroom. I mean to this day, I still don't know if she voted for Reagan, Carter, or Anderson. And that's OK.... cos she's right - I'd probably have told Mom & Dad, "Hey Miss M is voting for _____," like she suggested we would.

[jackfaire]

Anyone who disagrees needs to ask themselves how they'd feel if the cashiers at the local store took to telling them to "Fuck off" instead of "Have a nice day" - and were allowed to keep their jobs.

I would ask that they be given a raise.

I seriously am creeped out by the "robot niceness" CSRs are forced to employ in most stores. I would rather they treat me like a human being.

However, enough thread jacking, I think the teacher should be allowed to share her interpretation of history but not forcing it on the others hell even make it a teaching point. It would make History come alive. "How has the perception of history affected the politics and culture of today?"

For example to take a purely religious take on it what if someone in the bible whom the Bible itself never labels a bad or good person is interpreted as having done a good thing and considered a saint instead of a sinner.

Another example if Honestly was considered a bad trait instead of a positive one how would that affect how history is taught?

Etc.

I am not against teaching along ones beliefs if you're including critical thinking. Don't teach the kids what to think but rather teach them how to.

[wolfie]

I remember one of my teachers being asked "Who are you going to vote for?" for an upcoming election. She explained that she couldn't discuss it* because our parents might be mad if they knew. And this was a private school.

And I still think her answer was the right one to give. Just because we ask doesn't mean it should be answered inside the classroom. I mean to this day, I still don't know if she voted for Reagan, Carter, or Anderson. And that's OK.... cos she's right - I'd probably have told Mom & Dad, "Hey Miss M is voting for _____," like she suggested we would.

Would have been nice if she'd covered some of the abuses of the open outcall system (vote buying, workers being fired if they didn't vote for the boss' choice, etc), explained that is why the country now uses the secret ballot system, and told the class that telling people who you're planning to vote for defeats the purpose of the secret ballot system - turn the question into a brief civics lesson.

[smileyeagle1021]

A 50% drop rate benefits the school: it means people have paid for a class without getting credit, and therefore will have to pay for a replacement.

not when they drop the class early enough to be eligible for a refund... I don't know about all schools, but at least the schools in the USHE system are required to issue a refund for any class dropped within the first thee weeks. So people dropping classes do hurt them if they are all doing so when they are able to get a refund.

[HYHYBT]

Your system is generous. The above-high-schools I've been in won't refund unless you drop during the drop/add period, which if your class only meets once a week might end before you've even MET the instructor.

[fireheart17]

Hey, here's a shocker: you can teach acceptance without bringing any sort of deity into it. [/B]

100% agreed. In fact, part of the "drug education" program in primary schools down here is more focused on acceptance in the lower year levels, the idea that the kids are able to learn acceptance and about positive peer pressure.

I'm of a different opinion when it comes to social issues. I think it's fine to teach acceptance in the classroom, but others would still see that as "forcing opinions on the students." I think the safest route to take would be to only talk about a social issue if the students bring it up themselves. Then, the teacher could hold a class discussion on it and allow everyone to share their opinions and ideas.

There was a method that the class teacher I'm going to be with for my field placement used when she had to deal with a particular "social" issue, in this case, a student bringing in marijuana.
She actually sat down and had a class meeting with the entire class, allowing for them to discuss it and share their concerns. The kids that were away for the meeting were brought up to speed when they returned and were allowed to ask questions.

To clarify, the school I'm learning at is a Waldorf school. (taking more of the methodology aspects, rather than the spiritual aspects into my own teaching)

[Bloodsoul]

something about how a virgin cannot give birth to a MALE son without having a father etc.

I'm reminded of a documentary I watched years ago that put forth the idea that Mary was actually a hermaphrodite whom had somehow, in some one-in-a-bajillion way, impregnated herself (I doubt as any conscious effort on her part).

Of course since she appeared wholly female on the outside and was still a virgin, well, there you go. *shrugs*