Miss California?

[Fenrus]

I'm not stopping you from believing what you believe or loving who you love.

That's what you're not seeing. By refusing my rights to marry, you ARE stopping me from loving who I love. By saying I can marry, but can only marry a female, you are imposing your ideals on who I should love on me.

I don't have a problem with you as an individual.

If you didn't have a problem with me as an individual, you wouldn't have a problem with me marrying another individual you don't have a problem with, yes? Now, since that other individual is male, suddenly you have a problem with it. Please reaffirm your position before you post. I'm seeing quite a few holes, logical fallacies, and tired re-uses of phrases I'm not quite sure you believe yourself.

[Rubystars]

Due to a separation between Church and State, morals have no weight against law. Christians feel they have been wronged by the fact that they have to see something they think is immoral put into law.

I don't want gay marriage to be legitimized by the government when I see it as something immoral and harmful to the people involved.

Whereas I feel, as a homosexual male, and a LaVey Satanist, I have been wronged due to the fact that I cannot be free to love who I choose to love, and see Christian religion as immoral and wrong, but I also RESPECT your rights to believe what you believe, and to love who you love.

I'm not stopping you from believing what you believe or loving who you love.

All I'm asking is the same respect from you, which frankly I don't believe we are getting.

Christ said "Love thy fellow man". Why can't you love me?

I don't have a problem with you as an individual.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

@ruby
Tough fucking nuts.

I don't think drinking is entirely moral. Or gangsta rap, or any number of less savory, but legal activities.

No one's forcing you to acknowledge anything, hate gays all you want, but you're not allowed to force that on them or anyone else.

What you're missing is the fundamental right in this country to do anything you want whether it's good for you or not. That's essentially the opposite of outlawing gay marriage because you think it's not moral. There's only one exception to that rule, harming others.

So if you can say exactly how gays having the right to enter into beneficial social contracts visits harm upon you, while simultaneously telling us how stopping them doesn't deprive and therefore harm them... that would be nice.

[Fenrus]

Due to a separation between Church and State, morals have no weight against law. Christians feel they have been wronged by the fact that they have to see something they think is immoral put into law.

Whereas I feel, as a homosexual male, and a LaVey Satanist, I have been wronged due to the fact that I cannot be free to love who I choose to love, and see Christian religion as immoral and wrong, but I also RESPECT your rights to believe what you believe, and to love who you love. All I'm asking is the same respect from you, which frankly I don't believe we are getting.

Christ said "Love thy fellow man". Why can't you love me?

[Rubystars]

The Christians in the country also feel as if we've been wronged because we feel as if we're being forced to acknowledge something immoral as something legitimate in an official manner.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Supporting legislation against gay marriage and/or the prevention of legislation allowing gay marriage is the pursuit of persecution. Which is born out of prejudice against them.

So if you can explain how it's immature to post logic-based opinion on this site, that would be fascinating.

[Fenrus]

"I don't agree with you" does not equal persecution.

Refusing rights due to the fact that you don't agree DOES.

[Rubystars]

It doesn't matter if you believe gay marriage is good, bad, or whatever. This is a country of equal rights. If gays cannot marry the people they love, there is inequality ergo persecution.

"I don't agree with you" does not equal persecution.

The mature thing to do would be to

Not post things like:

Go ahead and hold that belief if you want, but please stop pretending that you're anything other than a prejudiced pro-persecution of minority and anti-rights A******E.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

It's quite simple, actually.

Ruby doesn't believe that gays should be allowed to marry. Therefore, Ruby is against gay marriage.

The fallacy is in the doctrine of pursuing legislation based on your own beliefs without consideration for others.

It doesn't matter if you believe gay marriage is good, bad, or whatever. This is a country of equal rights. If gays cannot marry the people they love, there is inequality ergo persecution.

Go ahead and hold that belief if you want, but please stop pretending that you're anything other than a prejudiced pro-persecution of minority and anti-rights A******E.

The mature thing to do would be to admit that your beliefs create inequality, and cease pursuit of thoroughly un-American legislation.

P.S. Gay marriage does not in the least effect your right to practice your religion. Hold ceremonies, don't hold ceremonies, no one cares. This is about allowing or disallowing a civil contract, which, regardless or origin, has nothing to do with any religion.

[Fenrus]

BroomJockey, as I've said repeatedly, I'm against legal recognition for gay marriage.

Which is doing exactly what you're saying you're not doing, denying rights to certain individuals based on what they do in the bedroom, and persecuting such individuals, which according to the Supreme Court with Lawrence Vs. Texas, is unconstitutional.

You keep saying you're "all for letting them have equal rights" as long as they "marry the opposite sex" which, honestly, causes hardship, divorce, and suicide. It's happened many times.

I tried to stay out of this, but I'm completely appalled at your beliefs. Is it truely okay to take away basic rights because you don't think it's "normal"? Isn't "normal" relative, and changes from person to person? You talk about society as a whole not liking it, but when close to 11% of society identifies as LGBT, your arguement becomes invalid.

If it doesn't affect you in the slightest, as you A) Are not homosexual, B) Do not have to administer the marriage liscences, and C) Do not have to perform the ritual, why are you against it so badly?

You say you don't want your tax money to be used for this? Since WHEN is a wedding, reception, or courtship paid for by the taxpayers? Plus, marriage liscences are SOLD by the county clerks. Meaning if this is allowed, your county generates a higher revenue, meaning lowering taxes, or a boost in tax-money paid services, such as EMS, Fire, and Police Departments.

[Rubystars]

BroomJockey, as I've said repeatedly, I'm against legal recognition for gay marriage.

[BroomJockey]

I'm not telling people they can't do anything. I might just define what they're doing differently than they do.

I know I said I was going to stay out of this from now on, but I just REALLY had to address this point. You're not telling people they can't do anything. But if you had your way, you would be. You would be telling people that they can't marry for love. You would make your definition such that they were unable to do something, aka "get married." That's... yeah, that's telling people they can't do something.

[Rubystars]

I'm not telling people they can't do anything. I might just define what they're doing differently than they do. I used to laugh when I worked at Wal-mart and people would refer to the Wal-mart family. (where's the puke smiley?) but some people really felt strongly, that this was the case. I didn't tell them they couldn't believe that if they wanted to.

[the_std]

But there was just proof that family goes well beyond your definition of family. I'm asking why tell someone they can't do something just because they don't fit into your criteria of something that actually has no effect on your life?

[Rubystars]

Groups of friends that love and care for each other are good. I just don't agree that those groups of friends form a family. They could be a "family" in a sense of being really close to one another, but that's not the same thing as an actual family. To me family is something you don't choose (except for your husband or wife, of course).