Breast not best?

[MadMike]

some babies will actually refuse to nurse from the breast

That's how it was with my son. He was probably intimidated by the damn thing, since it was bigger than his head. Hell, it was bigger than my head!

[Rapscallion]

I keep reading this thread and wondering if I should offer myself up as a volunteer to test from the baby's perspective.

Rapscallion

[Fire_on_High]

Look down...furry moobs should be a close enough approximation, right?

[Peppergirl]

Oh, give me a fucking break.

I HATE the people who judge the women who choose (for whatever reason) to bottle feed. Been there, done that. I was 18 when I had my first and was too intimidated to attempt breast feeding. When I was 20 and had my second, I wanted to try - but apparently am part of the 1-3 percent () who are unable to. Didn't stop people from judging me, though. I can only imagine it's gotten worse since then, too.

[BlaqueKatt]

but I just don't see why health visitors should be allowed to have an agenda whereas any mother who dares to bottle feed her child ends up being made to feel like a social leper.

yup because the nurses at the hospital where I delivered didn't give me two cases of artificial infant milk when I left, because "no woman can exclusively breastfeed-no one makes enough milk for that*" the women at WIC didn't have to look up what went on checks for breastfeeding women because they had never had any in a city of 50,000 people, and every time I went in for my checks asked what brand of artificial infant milk I was feeding my child.

Never had a doctor tell me to stop nursing my child and give him a bottle because I was sick(never mind my son was allergic to both cow's milk and soy).

Never had to call a lactation consultant because my doctor's answer to my breastfeeding problems was "just give him a bottle" because he had no idea what was wrong(it was an easily fixed latch/positioning problem-took 2 minutes to fix).

there are numerous causes for low milk production actual or perceived-most easily fixable, plus things like "growth spurts" that make a child nurse more frequently to increase milk production(your body makes what the baby needs) but because it's easier to just tell a woman "she's not producing enough milk" and "it's not her fault she tried" just give them a bottle, it absolves the physician of his or her guilt for not having the knowledge to fix the problem, or enough knowledge to know the problem doesn't actually exist it's just a perceived problem(growth spurt, non-engorged breasts, inability to pump-I could only pump one ounce my breasts weren't huge** but I still nursed my son for two years. the first nine months he had no other food-and I had been told at least 20 times that I wasn't making enough milk for him).

Wasn't repeatedly told that because my breasts weren't engorged as they were the first week that my baby was "starving" because I wasn't making enough milk.(the body adjusts and makes what the baby needs after a week or two, engorgement goes away, and it's highly painful)

Was never told that if I didn't wean him to a bottle and force him to drink artificial infant milk he'd never eat solid foods.

Yes this was all told to me by "medical professionals" mainly my son's pediatrician. And when I did correct him was told he was the doctor and he knew better. Physicians get exactly one day of training on breastfeeding issues-and it's usually given by an artificial infant milk rep-with the "solution" to any and all problems being-"just tell the mother to give them a bottle"

And bottle feeding women are routinely harassed in public, thrown out of restaurants, or told to feed their child in a restroom...., and I've seen just TONS of posts about women having the audacity to give their child a bottle in public-yup social pariahs the lot of them....


*apparently humans died off millions of years ago then if no woman can feed their child, evolution didn't work-yet cats, dogs and every other mammal on the planet can.....

He offered to pierce my nipples, since he is certified to do piercings. I told him no because I was going to breast feed my children.

Actually as long as you remove the piercing jewelry before attaching the child(choking hazard)-it won't hurt anything.

Especially when said "literature" comes from a biased source; yeah, sure a pro breastfeeding site is going to be completely neutral when discussing the subject!

And of course you believe the "safe and nutritious" claims from the pharmaceutical companies about their won product that they make money off of(psst the FDA does not regulate artificial infant milk-just says they have to list the ingredients).

Hmmm pro breastfeeding site giving information from medical journals not making a profit=biased
Pharmaceutical company making tons of money off product and the potential health issues later on caused by said product=reliable source.

that just seems a bit off.....


**had one doctor tell me that because my breasts went back down in size to my normal size(which usually happens after about 3 months or so of breastfeeding) that my milk had "dried up".

Comparison of human milk and artificial infant milk

It is nearly impossible for artificial baby milk manufacturers to make a milk with nutrients even close to what mothers' bodies can make. And these companies' primary goal is to make a profit, so marketing and manufacturing issues influence what finally gets into the can.

One of our concerns is that even though formula-fed infants appear to grow normally, are they really thriving? Thriving means more than just getting bigger. It means developing to the child's fullest physical, emotional, and intellectual potential. We just don't know about all the long-term effects of tampering with Mother Nature – though we do know that there are significant health differences between formula-fed and breastfed infants.

Messes with mother's mind. The words "in case you don't have enough milk" plant the seeds of doubt in mother's mind, and one way or another, they can keep a mother from making enough milk. When people suggest that your milk supply is inadequate, you may be quick to conclude that baby's fussiness, wakefulness or sleepiness (or anything else your baby is doing) means baby is not getting enough milk. Doubt produces confusion about how to interpret baby's cues and worries about him being hungry. Supplementary bottles look like the solution to your dilemma, but depending on supplements will make it impossible for you to learn to read your baby's breastfeeding cues. You'll nurse your baby less, and eventually, you won't have enough milk.


then there's this:
All infant formulas, whether ready-to-feed, concentrated or organic, contain fluoride at levels which can discolor developing teeth, reports the October 2009 Journal of the American Dental Association (JADA). Researchers measured fluoride content of 49 infant formulas.

[anakhouri]

I think it depends on the hospital where you deliver and you doctors. I have never felt persecuted for breastfeeding, honestly. And when I feed in public, I have a card (provided by the hospital) that details breastfeeding law in this state to give to the manager or whoever, and if I am ever told to leave you can be sure the news will be hearing about it. I am discreet about feeding Khan, after all, I don't use it as an excuse to flash people.

My pediatrician has never told me to give him formula, but he hasn't protested when I have, and I have an entire team of lactation consultants to contact if I need help. I have had tons of support and it has been relatively easy for me, but I can understand that a woman without such a great network would feel overwhelmed and want to give up. And as I said, if I worked full-time I would probably have given up too after my maternity leave.

I have never felt pressured either way, but unfortunately it seems like few people have had it so easy.

I keep reading this thread and wondering if I should offer myself up as a volunteer to test from the baby's perspective.

Breatfeeding is about the least sexy thing ever! Of course, you probably wouldn't end up puking in the woman's hair afterward either.

[Lace Neil Singer]

BK, you seem to be exactly one of those people with an agenda that I was talking about. Your example is YOU. You are not every single woman in the entire world. Also, your links are from pro sites, which are just as likely to be biased as the baby milk companies you keep going on about.

Finally, if you actually bothered to read my posts, you'd see that I am NOT AGAINST BREAST FEEDING. What I'm against, is mothers not being given the choice and being harranged at what is obviously a very stressful time by some health visitor with an agenda; much like yourself. If I were a new mother and someone like you came and started railing at me like you've been doing on this thread, I'd be hardpressed to choose between slapping you, or bursting into tears.

Breast or bottle, at least the child is being fed and not being starved. Why should it matter otherwise?

[IDrinkaRum]

This just in ... Norweigan Scientists say:

Bottle just as good, if not better than, breast milk.

[Boozy]

I suspect that breast-feeding was considered superior for years because it forced the mother to remain in constant proximity to her child. That kind of bonding early in a child's life would certainly make a difference.

But you can easily achieve the same with a bottle.

Breast-feeding is just not practical for many working mothers. They shouldn't be made to feel badly because they're unable to breast-feed and support their families at the same time.

In my personal opinion, breast-feeding is a no-brainer choice for stay-at-home moms (providing their bodies cooperate). Formula is very expensive and no better than breast milk. Why buy something nature gives you for free?

[thrifty]

While it may be true that only 1-3 percent cannot physically breastfeed, I do wonder the percentage of mother's who cannot mentally breastfeed.

Gee wanting to put my child up for adoption because I was so emotionally drained and exhausted from the pressure I put on myself to breastfeed, and then facing a lot of problems. Or happily feeding my baby formula... somehow I think my child much prefers the happy calm mom.

[XCashier]

BK, I suggest you read the following links to get a better perspective.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Some--of-us-cant-breastfeed
http://www.momlogic.com/2009/05/suic...astfeeding.php

I can totally relate to the woman in the first story. I wanted to breastfeed, desperately. My problems weren't due to medicine, I had blocked ducts, and the problem wasn't figured out until it was too late to fix it. Yes, I felt like a failure since I could not breastfeed, but my formula-fed son is now a perfectly healthy eight-year-old. Would he have done better on breastmilk? Possibly, if he could have survived on the pitiful few pinhead-sized drops I could squeeze out of my hopelessly blocked ducts.

The second story...oh, the poor woman. Postpartum depression is sheer hell, and to add breastfeeding problems on top of that...awful. I can understand why she felt she couldn't take it anymore.

There is far too much pressure on moms today. Breast vs bottle, cloth vs disposable, sling vs stroller, all the other nonsense piled on to a woman who is already dealing with severe hormone shifts, physical changes and a new baby...folks, get off Mom's case already! Give the poor woman a break! You want to help out? Offer to babysit for an hour or two while Mom takes a much-needed nap, don't bitch at her because of how she's feeding her child!

[Lace Neil Singer]

I couldn't agree more. At the point, after giving birth, the last thing an exhausted mother needs is to be bombarded with pro-breastfeeders who will give her hell if she even dares pick up a bottle of formula. Leave her alone, let her enjoy being a mother, and ffs, just give her equal information on both, and leave it up to her to choose. It's her flipping child, and as long as she's not abusing it, it's none of these busybodies' business what she chooses to feed it, breast milk or formula milk.

[BlaqueKatt]

Bottle just as good, if not better than, breast milk.

that's the same article

I had blocked ducts, and the problem wasn't figured out until it was too late to fix it. Yes, I felt like a failure since I could not breastfeed

no your doctor failed you because with an easy remedy to the problem they didn't bother to find what the problem was.

PPD and breastfeeding

Breastfeeding may decrease the rate of PPD, or lessen its impact. A 1994 study by Astbury, published in an Australian medical journal found the rates of PPD to be lower in women who had nursed their babies.

It is known that abrupt weaning (or not nursing following a baby's birth) can cause drastic changes in a mother's hormone levels, which may bring on sadness and even depression. It is recommended that weaning be done gradually, especially in mothers who are prone to PPD.


(basiclly because your body reacts as though the baby died, its evolution-rather than receiving the "love" hormones your body releases the "greiving" hormones)


and the only "agenda" I have is that women be able to make an INFORMED choice which is nigh impossible when being bombarded with advertisements from artificial infant milk producers, getting no info or help from physicians, or out and out incorrect/outdated information. It has been said that the only area of medicine where a doctor can practice/give advice with outdated information from the 1940's without being sued for malpractice is in the area of breastfeeding. Reason for that is they give the "there, there poor baby you tried-here use this brand of bottle" rather than give information or assistance because they don't know, and the information is not out there-because it "might make someone feel guilty"-sorry but people can only feel guilty if they know they did something wrong, like maybe not getting enough information to make an informed choice, and finding out after the fact there was information they didn't have that would've made a huge difference. it's condescending and patriarchal at best.


you think it's mere coincidence that the country with the shortest maternity leave time(usually unpaid), and the only country that allows direct marketing and samples of breastmilk substitutes(in violation of FEDERAL LAW*-btw)has the lowest rates of breastfeeding?

the entire articles of the WHO(World Health Orginazation) code-which was signed into FEDERAL LAW by President Clinton. And oddly enough the US was the ONLY country not to adopt the code in the 80's when it was first written.

Article 5. The General Public and Mothers

* There should be no advertising or promotion to the general public of products within the scope of the Code
* No samples may be given to mothers
* There should be no point-of-sale advertising
* There should be no gifts of articles or utensils given to pregnant women or mothers of infants and young children*

*how many of you got a "free" diaper bag with breastmilk substitutes samples from the company that made them?

Article 9. Labeling

* Must include: "important notice"; a statement of the superiority of breastfeeding; use on advice of a health worker

ever actually see that-yeah me neither-though it is on kitten milk replacer oddly enough.....

The Innocenti Declaration was produced and adopted by participants at the WHO/UNICEF policymakers' meeting on "Breastfeeding in the 1990s: A Global Initiative.

Efforts should be made to increase women's confidence in their ability to breastfeed. Such empowerment involves the removal of constraints and influences that manipulate perceptions and behaviour towards breastfeeding, often by subtle and indirect means. This requires sensitivity, continued vigilance, and a responsive and comprehensive communications strategy involving all media and addressed to all levels of society. Furthermore, obstacles to breastfeeding within the health system, the workplace and the community must be eliminated.



or is the world health orginization biased too?

[Rubyred]

One of our concerns is that even though formula-fed infants appear to grow normally, are they really thriving? Thriving means more than just getting bigger. It means developing to the child's fullest physical, emotional, and intellectual potential. We just don't know about all the long-term effects of tampering with Mother Nature – though we do know that there are significant health differences between formula-fed and breastfed infants.

My daughter is 8 1/2 months old and exclusively formula fed. She is healthy and happy. She has never been sick and she has always been consistently in the 80th percentile for weight and in the 75th for height. She slept through the night (12 hours) at 6 weeks. She is ahead in all of her physical and developmental milestones and is currently reaching some that are generally not achieved until about 12 mos. She took her first steps a few days ago.

The only things I took into consideration when I was pregnant and deciding how to feed her were my own personal feelings and the evidence I had in front of me in the form of the people and children I know.

I ultimately decided that I would bottle feed her because:

a. I didn't really want to breast feed in the first place.

and

b. My husband and my best friend were both breastfed and they both have numerous health problems. My brother and I were both formula fed and neither one of us has ever had anything wrong with us worth talking about.

I know that looking at four people doesn't do a whole lot of good on the broad spectrum but I had to look at what was directly in front of me before considering other things.


I caught a lot of crap from almost every woman I know to the point where I had to get angry and let them know that I would not be changing my mind and the subject was not up for discussion. Period.

All mothers should be able to make their own decisions about how to feed their children without being subjected to propaganda from both sides. As much advertising and pushing as the formula industry does the pro-breastfeeding community does just as much (although I have never heard of breastfeeding mothers being harassed in grocery stores by angry formula sales men claiming that they are poisoning their children )

[Lace Neil Singer]

or is the world health orginization biased too?

You clearly are, tho; and once again, YOU ARE NOT READING MY POSTS. I expect you just took out what the world health organisation said that supported your point of view, which, by the way, IS bias. I'm sure the world health organisation also supports babies being fed and not starved.

One more chorus; I AM NOT AGAINST BREASTFEEDING. What I am against, is new mothers being harrassed and treated like child abusers by nasty, spiteful, prejudiced pro-breast feeders, at a time when what they need the most is help and support, not to be attacked cuz they don't want to breastfeed, whether cuz they can't, or cuz they don't want to.

As for this point:

One of our concerns is that even though formula-fed infants appear to grow normally, are they really thriving? Thriving means more than just getting bigger. It means developing to the child's fullest physical, emotional, and intellectual potential. We just don't know about all the long-term effects of tampering with Mother Nature – though we do know that there are significant health differences between formula-fed and breastfed infants.

Strange; I could have sworn that both my little brothers, who were exclusively formula fed, were both healthy, thriving and also keen and talented sportsmen. I must have imagined it, cuz after all, no-one who isn't breastfed could ever attain that level of health, could they? There's none so blind as those who refuse to see.

All mothers should be able to make their own decisions about how to feed their children without being subjected to propaganda from both sides. As much advertising and pushing as the formula industry does the pro-breastfeeding community does just as much (although I have never heard of breastfeeding mothers being harassed in grocery stores by angry formula sales men claiming that they are poisoning their children )

This. From what I see, it's the pro-breast feeders who are the most millitant and forceful, not to mention nasty and spiteful. Maybe they need to get a grip and understand that formula is not poison... and unless the child in question is their child, they need to mind their own damn business.