because I made "x decision" everyone else is wrong

[Talon]

The average pro-lifer is a religious person who believes in the existence of the soul, specifically a soul which is formed at conception. In their world view, this makes an unborn child, regardless of the developmental stage of the fetus, just as much a person as a child which has already been born. By their reasoning, aborting a child is morally the same as mercy killing that child as an infant.

So what? Unwanted pregnancies are going to happen, regardless of their beliefs.

When so-called pro-lifers decide to stop hiding behind their platitudes and their bronze-age storybooks and face the actual root-causes of abortion, they might merit some respect. Until then, they're nothing more than Bullshit Mountain climbers.

[Rageaholic]

Add in that many *don't* consider the "child" to be truly innocent. If a child must be baptized (or, in some cases, accept Jesus consciously, which of course takes even longer) in order to go to Heaven, then, on the belief that the unborn are just as much people as a ten year old, what happens to them when they're aborted?

Yeah those people are scary (Westboro Baptist). What could a baby possibly do to warrent eternal damnation?

[Hyena Dandy]

Well some of them eat their twins...

God is apparently cool with infants practicing cannibalism. He wants those babies carried to term, but he's fine if they duke it out highlander style in the womb.

[Jaden]

if they were pro-life, they would be protesting the government JUST AS LOUDLY for better postnatal care, better orphanages, better foster care programs, food programs for starving children and better sexual health education for teens to prevent teen pregnancy. if they were pro LIFE they would work on improving the problems surrounding unwanted pregnancies instead of demonizing the pregnant women that may have no other choice.

I do.

If they were truly Pro-Life, they'd be protesting capital punishment.

I am.

I'm pro-life (may I use the term, please?) and I will gladly fight for all forms of life, for the women who feel they must have an abortion to the baby being aborted.

All of this "us/them" talk is unbecoming of you all. It's beneath you. You're rational people. Talk rationally. Don't "other" me into a box.

[the_std]

... All I see in this thread is rational discussion. Just because you're the anecdotal exception to the rule does not mean this thread has veered into the rage-rage-chest-thump-rage-some-more territory.

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

i hate the term pro-life. can we just go back to calling it anti-abortion? since that's what it is and all.
if they were pro-life, they would be protesting the government JUST AS LOUDLY for better postnatal care, better orphanages, better foster care programs, food programs for starving children and better sexual health education for teens to prevent teen pregnancy. if they were pro LIFE they would work on improving the problems surrounding unwanted pregnancies instead of demonizing the pregnant women that may have no other choice.
all i see is anti-abortion.

QFT. It's like "you must carry that baby to term no matter what...I'll help you if you want during the pregnancy but after you have the kid you're on your own."

[HYHYBT]

I don't like the way some of these people think that an unplanned pregnancy never, ever, EVER has anything to do with the man who helped create it.

Well, it's the man's job to try to have sex, and the woman's to refuse unless the situation is right for raising the potentially-resulting child well, don't you know.

[Fire_on_High]

so suffering, and possibly starving to death is preferable to being sent to heaven without suffering?

You're assuming all the various sects have some sort of "age of accountability" belief. Quite a few don't.

Ask some of the ppl from more repressive sects here and they'll likely verify that they know ppl who firmly believe animals, babies, fetuses, anyone who hasn't had the chance to accept salvation are all still hell-bound, just as much as if they'd heard but rejected.

[siead_lietrathua]

You're assuming all the various sects have some sort of "age of accountability" belief. Quite a few don't.

Ask some of the ppl from more repressive sects here and they'll likely verify that they know ppl who firmly believe animals, babies, fetuses, anyone who hasn't had the chance to accept salvation are all still hell-bound, just as much as if they'd heard but rejected.

but just because it's THEIR belief doesn't mean it has to effect MY life.
or her life or his life or anyone else's. the beauty of a "free" country. dig?

the right to anyone's religion ends outside of their own self. they don't have a right to force their religion onto people of a different religion, or of no religion.
cuz, ya now, that starts things like crusades, dark ages, and burning people at the stake. how about we don't go backwards.

[Lace Neil Singer]

they also don't seem to understand that even if you carry to term and give up for adoption a child from an unplanned pregnancy, it's not like having a haircut.

Not to mention the fact that some women, including me, are tokophobic and have an actual phobia about pregnancy. -.- I plan to get an implant eventually; basically, it's two phobias battling it out, my needlephobia vs my tokophobia, but hopefully the second one will win as the implant is best for me.

Also, I've noticed that a lot of pro-lifers don't seem to care what happens to the wretched fetus after it's born; they don't care that the mother might be struggling in poverty, be mentally ill or otherwise ill equipped to care for a baby. They don't care that not every baby given up for adoption goes to a loving family; there are hundreds of unwanted children in children's homes or being shunted around foster families.

Not to mention the fact that a lot of them write like they see pregnancy as a punishment; ie "You're a dirty slut so you can NOT have an abortion and give birth, that'll teach you for having sex, you whore!" Cuz of course, any woman who enjoys sex is a whore, don't you know.

[bara]

The pro-lifers who are against both abortion and birth control also love to ignore that fact that kids who are unwanted are tons more likely to turn to crime as a way of life. Especially so when they are the children of a single parent and are poorer than shit.

[Gravekeeper]

Frankly, at this point in the debate in the US, if you're "pro-life" and don't have at least one adopted child yourself, you can just shut the fuck up. ;p

[Jaden]

... All I see in this thread is rational discussion. Just because you're the anecdotal exception to the rule does not mean this thread has veered into the rage-rage-chest-thump-rage-some-more territory.

Frankly, at this point in the debate in the US, if you're "pro-life" and don't have at least one adopted child yourself, you can just shut the fuck up. ;p

Ok, I wasn't going to post anything else and just let it lie, but seriously, since KabeRinnaul, there has not been a single point raised. This entire thread has just been circle-jerking since then. What's the point of that, I ask you?

Not to mention that last post made me actually angry. That logic makes no sense. I'm in favor of gay rights. Am I not allowed to hold that position without having had sex with a man?

I could also say something like "At this point in the debate in the US, if you're not American, you don't have the right to an opinion on the matter, so you can shut the fuck up." But I'm not going to, because that's entirely unfair. Of course you're allowed to have an opinion on the matter that isn't the same as mine despite not living in the country where the debate is taking place. But you won't show me the same courtesy.

I'm pro-life, and I've already explained howso. I think that abortion should be absolutely last resort, only in certain cases of rape and/or the mother's life in danger, and I think the reasons we allow people to have abortions are too lenient. I'm totally in favor of other forms of birth control that prevent conception. I'm totally in favor of strengthening our adoption system. I'm in favor of continuing federal funding for Planned Parenthood, since I think their provision of contraception and counsel does much to in fact prevent abortion, outweighing the abortions they may be responsible for.

I don't demonize anybody for having too many children, nor do I demonize anybody for having an abortion, despite it being a choice I generally disagree with. I treat them all like human beings, who should be loved, cherished, and respected.

It sure is easy, though, to just tell somebody to "shut the fuck up" when you just make them the other and completely discount their entire viewpoint for being different from your own, isn't it?

[Rapscallion]

Not to mention that last post made me actually angry. That logic makes no sense. I'm in favor of gay rights. Am I not allowed to hold that position without having had sex with a man?

Being in favour of gay marriage does not impact on others.

Being 'pro life' means forcing others to bear unwanted children. It has a major effect on others.

Significant difference.

Rapscallion

[Gravekeeper]

Not to mention that last post made me actually angry. That logic makes no sense. I'm in favor of gay rights. Am I not allowed to hold that position without having had sex with a man?

a) There was a reason I put pro-life in quotes.
b) What Raps said.

As long as you are against another's freedom, I will be against you. Even if I understand your justification, I do not accept it. Because you are for the removal of another person's freedom of choice. As long as you occupy that position, I am going to be blunt and scornful of you, yes. Because no matter what you tell yourself to make it alright, you are still advocating the removal of another person's rights.

That is not okay no matter what you tell yourself. Period.