So, anybody gonna make fun of the California Secessionists?

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

Some Californians wants to secede because we elected someone who is outwardly racist/sexist/a POS human being who supports rape/etc. That's a legit complaint.

Some Texans want to secede because they are concerned Obama was secretly plotting to takeover Texas with the military during training exercises. They are conspiracy theorist whackjobs.

If you don't actually notice the similarities between some on the left's political use of Trump's statements to formulate what you just said AND the right's use of generic paranoia that creates the Texans you're complaining about you probably don't understand why I see them as the same person. In both cases, both groups are ultimately fueled by the fact they don't feel they wield enough power politically to get what they want every time and they're right. And yes Trump has a history of saying racist, sexist, rapey things AND the US Government does not have the best track record of always behaving on the up and up. But my point is, both groups fixate on what (in reality) is probably the 5% excess they fear most as the totality.

Culturally, we teach our children to value revolutionaries and then wonder why we always find something to be revolutionary about. There's always a reason. Give me a cause and I can give you three reasons to be wildly angry.

[mjr]

Not really my thing, I'll leave it to the experts.

And who might those experts be?

[Tanasi]

My brother had an interesting point about this: Power and Water, California can't generate enough of either to survive. Cut off the water and California goes back to be a desert, cut off their power and it's back to a third world status.
Let'em secede, I certainly wouldn't fight to keep them in the union and I wouldn't encourage any one else to do so. Close the board and establish a naval blockade.

[Kheldarson]

Close the board and establish a naval blockade.

Close which border? There's still one border that would be open and the US can't close that as that would be making military moves against two sovereign nations. Same with establishing a naval blockade.

[Tanasi]

Close which border? There's still one border that would be open and the US can't close that as that would be making military moves against two sovereign nations. Same with establishing a naval blockade.

Does not one country have the right to choose who crosses their boarders??? Does California have an army, navy or air force??? Don't assume that if CA does secede that any military equipment will be left behind or what is left behind will be useful.
Cutting off the power and water from outside CA would hurt CA more than anything else. Cut off the water then they also loose their agriculture. Cut off the power it's not too long before the Silicon Valley folks will be wanting out.
CA can't legally secede anymore than the south could have 150+ years ago, therefore a naval blockade would be very legal because CA can't be a sovereign nation.
It's all an academic exercise, CA won't secede they know it's not in their best interest to do so.

[Aragarthiel]

Secession without war would take time, though. Time that could be used to find ways to generate power, find sources of water, and create a basic government/legal system. And don't say it can't be done, look at Brexit.

[Tanasi]

Secession without war would take time, though. Time that could be used to find ways to generate power, find sources of water, and create a basic government/legal system. And don't say it can't be done, look at Brexit.

Well one really big difference is that Great Briton was already and still is it's own sovereign country with it's own sources of power, water, military, legal and national government. GB really didn't and doesn't rely on the EU to exist.
CA has a state and local government but that doesn't equate to a national government. CA doesn't have a military whereas the US does and can go to war immediately.
When it come to new source of water and power will the environmentalists allow new forms. They don't seem to like any current forms.
I say it can' be done because states within the United States of America can't secede by law regardless of Brexit. That's apples and oranges.
Also think about this, if a vote is held to secede do you really think the whole of CA would vote to secede??? The areas of LA and SF probably would but I bet the remainder wouldn't, a lot of those areas would like to secede from LA and SF now. Right before Pearl Harbor there was a movement in Northern CA and Southern OR to break away and form their own state. CA is a state dominated by two very large population centers and lots of areas outside those areas resent that.

[s_stabeler]

there's also the fact that there is explicit provision in the EU treaties ( article 50) for a member of the EU to leave. There is no such provision in the US Constitution.

[wolfie]

CA has a state and local government but that doesn't equate to a national government. CA doesn't have a military whereas the US does and can go to war immediately.

Also think about this, if a vote is held to secede do you really think the whole of CA would vote to secede??? The areas of LA and SF probably would but I bet the remainder wouldn't,

Don't forget that LA and SF are the major West-coast ports for the U.S. Would any country tolerate another nation sitting on (and potentially blocking) its main trade routes to a significant part of the world (Pacific Rim)? While nations which have been landlocked for their entire existence (e.g. Switzerland) can and do tolerate this, a nation which has traditionally had such access won't.

A few examples:
- "54:40 or fight" The BNA (British North America - this was before Canada was an independent entity)/U.S. border west of the Rockies hadn't been settled by treaty. The U.S. wanted to have it veer north to reach the coast at 54 degrees 40 minutes (southernmost limit of Alaska, at that time a Russian territory). Britain was NOT going to allow its territory to be cut off from the Pacific ocean.

- Danzig corridor. After the Great War, the victorious countries decreed that a certain landlocked area would be allowed coast access via the Danzig corridor, even though that meant there would be no access through German territory between East Prussia and the rest of Germany. This was one of the "crimes against the German people" that a certain corporal from the signal corps complained about.

- (fictional examples) Harry Turtledove's "lost orders found before they fell into Union hands" series (How Few Remain, Great War series, American Empire series). (HFR) Mexico sells land with Pacific access to Confederates, U.S. doesn't approve, CSA goes to war to keep the access it bought. (GW/AE) U.S. clamps down on Mormons in Utah who want to break away - they are sitting across main route to the Pacific coast.

a lot of those areas would like to secede from LA and SF now. Right before Pearl Harbor there was a movement in Northern CA and Southern OR to break away and form their own state. CA is a state dominated by two very large population centers and lots of areas outside those areas resent that.

That secession would probably be tolerated by the U.S. government for the simple reason that the land would stay in the U.S., merely being part of a different state.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

CA is a state dominated by two very large population centers and lots of areas outside those areas resent that.

It's funny, but this is sort of why I tend to think Secession as a concept always turns into a bit of a Russian nesting doll. Someone is always not being served by the way things are. It's the kind of thing you probably better have 75% population buy in before even trying.

Texas is actually the inverse of CA - it has four major population centers and the politics off all of them divorced from the rest of the state skew Blue. I'm constantly irate with my state which I can't separate from AND can't get representation from. Because of our entirely on the up and up districting, if I just use general election results - my 41-43% representation falls to 33% in the Texas house, no major offices, few major judge ships, etc.. And I tend to think the 41-43 number is low, its just this has been a one party state for... 20 years? Most Dems don't show up.

So I sort of tend to think you'd see the inverse in Texas - a movement of Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, and Austin to bolt taking with it the economic center of the State. And constitutionally, they can actually try this now. I think you don't see it because the Republicans (just like the Dems in CA) would never EVER allow more direct apportionment of votes. For either state it would mean the immediate loss of every following election.

[victory sabre]

I'm 100% in favor of self determination of people to chose to create their own nation, thus, I strongly support California to succeed from the nation.

I would hope that they're able to do so, and can make it work where others have failed.

[Cia]

Quebec has a better chance of seceding than California or Texas.

Does California Whatevers think they'll be able to keep Camp Pendleton or the San Diego Naval Base w/o major fight?

[mjr]

Quebec has a better chance of seceding than California or Texas.

Does California Whatevers think they'll be able to keep Camp Pendleton or the San Diego Naval Base w/o major fight?

There are a lot in California who would probably be happy to see them go.

[wolfie]

Quebec has a better chance of seceding than California or Texas.

With a corridor running 10 km north of the northermnost, and 10 km south of the southermnost, or to the U.S. border (whichever comes first) of the St. Lawrence Seaway, the C.N. main line, the C.P. main line, and the Trans Canada highway remaining part of Canada so we would still have in-country access to the Maritimes and the Atlantic.

Don't forget requiring a 2/3 majority of eligible (for federal elections - standards of who's eligible are set by the Federal government, so Quebec couldn't disenfranchise people they though were opposed) voters (not of votes cast - of eligible voters, so a "didn't show up" would count as a "no") to approve before secession could take place.