Illegal immigration...

[Greenday]

Those days saw the formation of Irish and Italian gangs and the beginnings of organized crime.

Better organized than the unorganized crime we see today. Hell, gangs these days will shoot ANYONE without reason.

[AFPheonix]

Gangs are a form of organized crime. There's quite a few of the older gangs that have gotten quite crafty and are making a lot of money off of the drug trade.

"Unorganized" crime as you put it has its roots in other problems and isn't nearly as insidious as organized crime. Your standard street thug might mug a few people on the street. The Mob infiltrated Government on several levels.

So, I will have to heartily disagree with you. Neither are a good thing, I will grant, but I'd rather take one stupid street tough who gets his stupid ass shot over something stupid over the wolf in sheep's clothing who's hobnobbing with one hand and shaking down other people with the other.

[rahmota]

Over on the draft thread I posted this thought and it would work here too.

Service grants citizenship.

Right now a person is born they get the "right" to drive, vote, have access to food stamps, afdc, all sorts of free govt programs, as well as full protection of the constitution and bill of rights of the united states of america. You cross the border you fill out some papers you wait and then viola you have the same rights as someone born here.

Most americans havent really earned their rights either but thats a rant for something else. But an easy way for an outsider to gain citizenship would be to use them, their skills and their abilities in some sort of compulsory service. Be it military, or civil. You serve 5 years and then you get your citizenship. During that 5 year period they are taught civic pride, duty and a sense of citizenship as well as the language, laws and practical aspects of america. (somethign I think some americans could use as well) Yeah this might seem to some to be just a cheap source of labor and conscripts for the military as no doubt a lot of people would take that route for one reason or another but it is not much different than having corporate america exploit illegals. And at least this way they gain their citizenship through honest work and not just sneaking in.

Anyhow its just an idea thats been rattling around and finally escaped. SO what do you think?

[Greenday]

rahmota, that sounds a lot like one of the early scenes from Starship Troopers. I mean, it plays a huge part of the movie so I wouldn't be surprised if that gave you the idea.

[rahmota]

Greenday: yeah that is one of my major inspirations. A lot of the political ideas Heinlein had and which run through his works make a good bit of sense to me.

Some of the works like To Us the Living, Starship Troopers and The Moon is Harsh Mistress have social ideas that could work if given a chance in reality.

[Greenday]

I honestly like the idea. You actually have to do something for the country to gain citizen ship. You have to actually EARN your way.

Would you like to know more?