Originally posted by blas87
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1) The health care law is nowhere near socialism. In fact, nothing that has been done by Obama would be socialist. In order for it to be socialist, the government would have to nationalize all health insurance companies, all hospitals, all medical personnel, and completely outlaw private medicine altogether. You wouldn't have a choice of getting private insurance because it doesn't exist. This is in accordance with economic and political definitions of socialism.
The health care mandate is actually a 'mixed-system' proposal heavily weighted towards capitalism. Canada and Germany and the UK and other places with national health care systems aren't even socialist, really.
But most people in the USA use the word socialism incorrectly anyway, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
2) The idea that government is taking over healthcare is a lie anyway, but better people than I have compiled facts.
3) If someone can't get on state insurance or afford private insurance, they do not have to pay the fine. They can get on FedGov health insurance. It's part of the law.
4) We weren't really founded on getting away from government and control. Truth be told, a bunch of rich white landowners here in North America decided they wanted power and control instead of the UK handling it. Thus, rebellion, all tarted up in fine words and shining promises and clever rhetoric. After all, the Founding Fathers certainly didn't have any interest in freeing the enslaved and indentured, treating women equally, or even allowing people who didn't own land to vote.
Originally posted by protege
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Originally posted by protege
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The laws and court cases have basically created a choice: You can have the Feds regulate it or you can have the insurance companies make their own rules and loopholes as they please. Unless they change the definition of Santa Clara, there's nothing to be done about it.
Originally posted by Fuzzykitten99
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Originally posted by Fuzzykitten99
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And if you can't afford it, and receive care, you will lose what little property you have when they garnish your accounts, put liens on your property, and call in your loans.
*shrugs* But that's capitalism. Dog-eat-dog.
Originally posted by Fuzzykitten99
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Originally posted by Fuzzykitten99
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As it is, right to a certain standard of health care is usually argued as justified under the General Welfare clause of the preamble, and enforced by the Necessary & Proper clause.
Originally posted by Fuzzykitten99
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Originally posted by Fuzzykitten99
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Flash Fact: Many other countries in the world are just as advanced as we Americans are, and in fact, in some places surpass us in various areas.
Flash Fact: Of the people who come to the USA for medical treatments, the majority of those are coming here for a) cosmetic surgery or b) because they can pay to get to the head of the line. Period. This doesn't even include the vast number of Americans who go to other countries to get vital surgeries that are available here because it's cheaper in other countries.
I refer you to the WHO World Health Report for further education on the subject.
Originally posted by Fuzzykitten99
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Originally posted by Fuzzykitten99
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[I should point out that this is one reason why I think EVERYTHING in the USA should be corporate and small business consigned to the dustbin of history. If you can't compete globally, why compete? You're just going to get bought anyway.]
Originally posted by Fuzzykitten99
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1) The idea that the mandate is illegal is completely crap. The mandate has been deemed constitutional by two judges already, this judge notwithstanding. Also, the idea has traditionally gathered support from insurance companies and central figures within the Republican Party (Charles Grassley, Mitt Romney, and the late John Chafee are examples) have promoted it heavily. No one has ever suggested it would be illegal until now and there are many good legal opinions on the subject that I can point you too.
2) The health care bill WAS passed and signed into law on its own. It was not part of a military budget and ISN'T a budget at all. IThe Patient Protection & Affordable Care Act was signed into law as a federal statute on March 23, 2010. There is no mention of a military budget or anything else within it. You can read the full text of the Act here.
Where the heck did you get this conspiracy-level hoo-ha about it not being an actual law from?
If you think that all politicians are scumbags and don't do what is in the best interest for the country, why on earth would you put them in charge of your healthcare? They have already proven they cannot handle Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid (who reject more claims than any other private insurer), War on Poverty, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, the U.S. Postal Service, FEMA, Department of Energy, and pretty much any other government funded project. Would you entrust your car to be fixed at a shop that had this kind of success rate?
1) I do trust my government in general or I would have immigrated by now. Especially as I don't believe in violence or red revolution.
2) Let me you ask this: Who do you trust more, a government employee who at least is supposed to care about your concerns as a citizen or a corporate man who's only goal is to make as much money as possible for the shareholders? I can tell you who I'm going to trust more and it sure won't be the guy who will retroactively cancel your health insurance because your daughter with leukemia will impact his profit line and stands in the way of his bonus. Don't believe it happens? Yes, the health insurance companies do this. They told Congress. And they wouldn't stop unless the bill was passed.
I keep telling people, corporations are sociopaths, and no one listens. I work for one. I've always worked for a corporation. I KNOW this. Considering I trust small business less than I trust a corporation, why are people surprised I trust government more than either? At least a government is supposed to pretend to care. And are more predictable.
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