Is atheism geared more toward christianity?

[Nekojin]

But, for the sake of argument, here's a thought experiment - what if I were to describe Christianity in such a way that it means that I do not believe in a lack of a god?

What would it be at this point? It's a lack of a belief, isn't it?

I think that most Christians would say that's a totally inadequate description of Christianity, and some would find it a bit insulting.

Edit for additional content: Christianity isn't just a disbelief in a lack of a god, it is an affirmative and direct belief in one specific god, the one detailed in the Bible. While it would be accurate to say that some atheists have an affirmative and direct belief in a lack of any gods, that wouldn't be accurate for all atheists. Some just simply lack any belief in gods.

[Jaden]

Aw! I feel so warm and fuzzy. Apologies being issued and accepted in an Atheism/Christian thread? My goodness!

Apologies between an atheist and a Christian no less

My being an atheist means I do not believe in any god or religious, divine presence.

Hmm, there's something I found very interesting about this discussion. Crashhelmet, when talking about atheism, says that it is the belief that there is no god. STD, on the other hand, says that being an atheist means you don't believe in any god. Both of these statements mean exactly the same thing, really, but the wording difference is crucial since one incorporates belief and one doesn't. That's really the major dispute here - how one describes and categorizes atheism.

I don't know where I stand on the issue of whether or not atheism qualifies as a religion - I've thought different things at different points in my life, and right now I'm not convinced of either side. But, for the sake of argument, here's a thought experiment - what if I were to describe Christianity in such a way that it means that I do not believe in a lack of a god?

What would it be at this point? It's a lack of a belief, isn't it?

[crashhelmet]

My arguments are specifically theists vs atheist.

However, when speaking of religion in general, the term atheist in this sense means someone who doesn't have a religion of any sort, theistic or otherwise.

While a Buddhist can be both atheistic and religious, the term atheist is generally accepted to mean "none" by everybody but misguided pedants who won't accept that when someone puts "atheist" as their religion, it doesn't mean "other."

^-.-^

"Generally accepted" does not equal right or correct. But that's a different tangent to go down.

[Andara Bledin]

The problem that I see you and others making here is that you continue to insist that religion MUST include some sort of deity or group of deities.

My arguments are specifically theists vs atheist.

However, when speaking of religion in general, the term atheist in this sense means someone who doesn't have a religion of any sort, theistic or otherwise.

While a Buddhist can be both atheistic and religious, the term atheist is generally accepted to mean "none" by everybody but misguided pedants who won't accept that when someone puts "atheist" as their religion, it doesn't mean "other."

^-.-^

[the_std]

Disbelief is not the same as belief. A doctrine that there is no god does not imply blind faith, one of the core tenets of any religion.

You are allowed to think whatever you'd like about a lifestyle that you do not ascribe to, but I do not believe that your ideas about them make them true. My ideas about atheism do not make atheism the same as what I believe either, but as I am an atheist, I am not going to let someone else tell me what a core value of my life is when they do not share that value.

I am done with this discussion as I can see it is not going to go anywhere - we are saying the same things over and over again with no effect. Thank you.

[crashhelmet]

I am not offended by the term religion. I'm just sure it does not apply to atheists, as atheism is the antithesis of religion. You don't look at the air and say "that's just a less-wet version of water". Atheism is not religion with the god taken out. It is the opposite of religion. And I'm pretty sure that someone who is not an atheist doesn't get to say what an atheist is. I do not have a belief system. There is nothing that comes with atheism besides a LACK of belief. It is not belief. Period.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

athe·ism noun \ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm\

Definition of ATHEISM

1
archaic : ungodliness, wickedness
2
a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity

And lets not forget

be·lief noun \bə-ˈlēf\

Definition of BELIEF

1
: a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
2
: something believed; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
3
: conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence

[the_std]

I am not offended by the term religion. I'm just sure it does not apply to atheists, as atheism is the antithesis of religion. You don't look at the air and say "that's just a less-wet version of water". Atheism is not religion with the god taken out. It is the opposite of religion. And I'm pretty sure that someone who is not an atheist doesn't get to say what an atheist is. I do not have a belief system. There is nothing that comes with atheism besides a LACK of belief. It is not belief. Period.

[crashhelmet]

Now I can ask you for a third time - why do you want us to be religious? Why do you insist upon it so?

Because the very definition of the word Religion says you are.

Why can there be multiple flavors of Theism and not Atheism?

Scientific Atheists and "Natural" Atheists? Although there are theistic religions in the world that are built around the natural elements of the universe.

Now I ask you, why are you so offended by the term "Religion"?

[the_std]

Okay, maybe "believe" was the wrong thing for me to say. I trust the scientific method. I trust an objective and curious view about the world. I try to live my life as an educational experience. But NONE of that is tied into being an atheist. My being an atheist means I do not believe in any god or religious, divine presence. It means nothing in accordance to anything outside of the religious scope. I could be an atheist and say that modern science is bullcrap, that we need to go back to balancing the body's humours and ascribing the world to the four elements. My atheism does not require me to believe in modern science or ascribe any specific way of living. Simply that I do not believe in god/religion.

Now I can ask you for a third time - why do you want us to be religious? Why do you insist upon it so?

[crashhelmet]

I will not. A lack of belief is not the same thing as a belief. Being an atheist does not require me to believe in anything at all. As an individual, as my own person, I choose to believe things. But my atheism does not factor into it at all. I and my fellow atheists do not need to conform to your idea of how we should live or how our lives should be defined. I ask again - why do you need to describe us as religious?

So let me try and get this straight.

As an Atheist you don't believe in anything, because Atheism is, in your own words, a lack of beliefs.

Yet, from your own words again, you choose to believe things.

Do you know what the words belief and believe mean? Or are you a really bad Atheist?

[the_std]

I will not. A lack of belief is not the same thing as a belief. Being an atheist does not require me to believe in anything at all. As an individual, as my own person, I choose to believe things. But my atheism does not factor into it at all. I and my fellow atheists do not need to conform to your idea of how we should live or how our lives should be defined. I ask again - why do you need to describe us as religious?

[crashhelmet]

But atheism requires no belief the way that religion does. A key factor to religion is the belief in something that is not readily provable. Atheism does not require belief in... Anything. Just a lack of belief. And why are you so insistent to categorize atheists with theists anyways?

No....... No, no, no, no, no.....

Atheism requires a lack of belief in Theism.

That's what Atheism means.

Do Atheists not believe the world is round or there are more universes beyond what we know for certain?

Do they not believe in the principles of the Scientific Method or that when they die they won't go anywhere except for into the ground and into the belly of an earthworm?

Surely they believe in SOMETHING. Quit saying that Atheism is a lack of beliefs.

[the_std]

But atheism requires no belief the way that religion does. A key factor to religion is the belief in something that is not readily provable. Atheism does not require belief in... Anything. Just a lack of belief. And why are you so insistent to categorize atheists with theists anyways?

[crashhelmet]

The problem that I see you and others making here is that you continue to insist that religion MUST include some sort of deity or group of deities.

Take any religion that you recognize as a "religion." Take its core structure and remove any "personalization from it (Jesus, Jehovah, Allah, Buddah, heaven, hell, etc). Now take another and strip it down as well. Take a 3rd and a 4th. When you compare them all, they're all the same basic core structure.

Now compare them to Atheism and its core structure.

Atheists have their own beliefs to match/compare to what the theists believe that make up their "religions."

Let's look again at Definition Number 4 of Religion quoted by Rebel from M-W

4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

Let's look at the definition of Ardor

a : an often restless or transitory warmth of feeling <the sudden ardors of youth>
b : extreme vigor or energy : intensity
c : zeal
d : loyalty

And now Faith

3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction;

Religion does not require a deity.

[Andara Bledin]

Atheism isn't just a belief that there is no god.

And by your definition, pretty much any fandom (gaming, entertainment, sports, etc) qualifies as a religion. And you can probably throw in most cultures as well.

Organized atheism is closer to a culture than a religion - a culture of being a-religious. Unfortunately, so much of the populace has grown up in a religion-steeped world that the concept of someone being without a religion comes off as alien, and as a result people try to stuff atheism into a religion pigeon-hole to make it more familiar.

When we as a collective stop trying to shove that square peg into the neat little round holes we've got in our mind's board, the entirety of humanity will be better off.

To make it a bit more visual and physical (and decidedly not literal so don't even go there), imagine that theists are a branch of humanity that has 5 fingers per hand. Atheists, however, only have 4 fingers per hand. The theists think the atheists are defective, while the atheists think that the theists should just get rid of those extra fingers as vestigial and useless. Both sides are wrong to try to make the other be more like them; the theists would be crippled without those fingers, and the atheists are whole and comfortable without them.

^-.-^