Is atheism geared more toward christianity?

[Andara Bledin]

Is there a devil wanting your soul?

Nope. All my demons are of my own creation and are my own to fight. and hell is a self-imposed punishment.

^-.-^

[crashhelmet]

Is there a devil wanting your soul?

Rapscallion

No, actually.

There are mentions of demons possessing the living and assumptions that the serpent, Lucifer, and Satan are all one in the same. They're mentioned trying to corrupt people or test their faith. They're never after a soul.

Any soul stealing or bargains are the writings of other authors or fire and brimstone type evangelists.

[Rapscallion]

See, this is one of those sweeping generalizations that people are bitching about.

Is there a devil wanting your soul?

Rapscallion

[Andara Bledin]

Bear in mind that modern religion - the western form anyway - requires a scapegoat or demon. Someone to blame or fear.

See, this is one of those sweeping generalizations that people are bitching about.

Western religion needs a scapegoat no more or less than, say, atheism. It's people who feel the need to have someone on the other side, a target against whom to measure themselves and to feel as though they're the superior ones, and someone to blame when things aren't as perfect as they think things should be. It all boils down to the same tribalistic bullshit humanity has been pulling since the time there were enough people in the same area to start competing for resources.

^-.-^

[Rapscallion]

Because of that, I've been told that I'm one of those militant atheists who hate Christians. I guess it's easier to believe that someone who does not share your faith is actively trying to destroy it - rather than it just makes no sense to him.

Bear in mind that modern religion - the western form anyway - requires a scapegoat or demon. Someone to blame or fear.

Rapscallion

[draco664]

The Old Testament is all about God and is accepted as the only true Bible by the Jewish people. Christians do read and follow the Old Testament (for whatever reason - it was mostly made redundant by the New Testament), but Jesus and his travels are included in the New Testament.

A lot of the passages in the Old Testament are incredibly violent and call for the death of anyone who breaks a law considered absolute by God. The New Testament then introduces Jesus and speaks about how he died to wash away the sins of the people. Jesus preached that we shouldn't judge others as God would judge them, and to instead try to help the people around us. Basically, a true Christian should hold the lessons of the New Testament as absolute, rather than clinging onto their hatred of others and using the Old Testament as an excuse to do so.

I remember watching a clip of Lewis Black talking about the bible, and the difference between the God of the OT and the God of the NT.

Essentially, it came down to being a wild and reckless God, who then had a son, and had to calm the fuck down and grow up...

I'm an atheist - despite (or perhaps because of) being educated in a Christian school. I've studied the bible quite intensely, more so than a great many Christians I've met over the years. I've even read parts of the Koran, though not so much that I'd claim to be in any way knowledgeable on the topic. I don't begrudge anyone their beliefs, if you want to pray five times a day, go ahead. If you want to go to church every Sunday, fine by me. If you believe in the collected works of L. Ron Hubbard, I'll point you in the direction of the local Church of Scientology. But if someone does try to convert me, I'm quite happy to point out all the inconsistencies in their arguments.

Because of that, I've been told that I'm one of those militant atheists who hate Christians. I guess it's easier to believe that someone who does not share your faith is actively trying to destroy it - rather than it just makes no sense to him.

[crashhelmet]

At no point, ever, was such a distinction ever made during my days in Sunday School and Catholic Day Care. If that's the way the clergy believe, then there's a distinct breach in communication between how it's applied and how it's taught.

You can teach a lesson on Faith, cite Matthew 17:20 and how it only takes faith the size of a mustard seed to move mountains, but then tell the story of Job from the Old Testament. You can use the Book of Proverbs to reinforce other lessons as well.

You can tell the story of Creation, or the story of Noah and the Ark, or Moses leading the people out of Egypt. Those are history lessons, in a sense.

[Seifer]

Both Southern Baptists and Catholics (the two denominations I had direct contact with) teach both Old Testament and New Testament, and I've never been to any sermons in either church that made any sort of distinction - both are Holy. Trying to make a hard line between what is or isn't followed isn't so easy as simply discarding the Old Testament.

The Old Testament is all about God and is accepted as the only true Bible by the Jewish people. Christians do read and follow the Old Testament (for whatever reason - it was mostly made redundant by the New Testament), but Jesus and his travels are included in the New Testament.

A lot of the passages in the Old Testament are incredibly violent and call for the death of anyone who breaks a law considered absolute by God. The New Testament then introduces Jesus and speaks about how he died to wash away the sins of the people. Jesus preached that we shouldn't judge others as God would judge them, and to instead try to help the people around us. Basically, a true Christian should hold the lessons of the New Testament as absolute, rather than clinging onto their hatred of others and using the Old Testament as an excuse to do so.

[Andara Bledin]

That is life in much of small town America, and not all of it. My aunt lives in a tiny little town in Vermont (they only got street names that show up on a map a few years back), and it's nothing like what you describe.

That, and churches are tax exempt because they're churches not because they're charities; that's an entirely different set-up, although there are many churches that also run charities, just as there are many churches that run standard businesses such as hospitals - if they were exempt as churches, then there wouldn't be the reactionary thread here about how the government is going to force the businesses to include contraceptives in their health care offerings.

However, I am, as a Christian, completely in accord regarding the nonsense about "teach the controversy," the greed and excessive pride displayed so publicly with those tacky ass megachurches, and anyone who thinks it's acceptable to ostracize their children merely for having the audacity to not be little clones of them. None of these are acceptable, and I make a point of saying so whenever appropriate and voting that shit down whenever it comes up.

^-.-^

[AdminAssistant]

I've heard many a Baptist sermon based on Old Testament passages.

As to why atheists (and anti-theists) focus their arguments against Christianity...well, that's the predominant religion in the US, isn't it? The "In God We Trust" that's emblazoned on our money is a specific Judeo-Christian god, is it not? Christians are the ones who knock on our doors to pass out pamphlets and ask if we've "found God," and before anyone says otherwise, I've had Missionary Baptists and Church of Christ do that. It's not just Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses.

My fiance's hometown is a rather small town (~25,000, I'd say, maybe less), but it has a large, private, Church of Christ university. The entire county is completely dry. No alcohol sold in stores or in restaurants. The local bookstores (even the chain stores) won't carry books on other religions or things like The Kama Sutra, because of the risk of public outrage. We were in a restaurant, and I spilled something on myself (happens a lot, sad to say). I sighed and said, "Oh, CHRIST, lemme clean this up." Fiance gave me a panicked look, and I realized that half the restaurant was glaring at me, because I said the lord's name in fucking vain.

That, THAT, is life in much of America. Christianity is so indoctrinated that it's hard to exist if you're a free thinker. It's invading our classrooms....science teachers are forced to include creationism in the curriculum or at least, "teach the controversy." The churches are exempted from taxes because they're "charities," while building huge megachurches and magnificent temples to capitalist religion, complete with tens of thousands of dollars of stage lights, state-of-the-art sound systems, and set up for distribution on television. You'll notice I'm completely leaving out the fuckery of the Catholic church, that all's been covered before.

Read r/atheism for a little while. There are a lot of stuck-up assholes and jerks, yes. But you'll also read story after story of children being kicked out of their homes for not believing in a very specific God. Parents, turning their teenage kids out on the street, because they don't want to go to church. That's fucked up. People who, when finding out that someone is ill or going through a hard time, say nothing but, "I'll pray for you." If a doctor(s) save their life, God did it.

I would never begrudge a person their personal faith. But I see so much of Christianity asserting itself in the public sphere, which actually goes against the Bible itself.

Matthew 6:1-8 Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

[Rageaholic]

I actually do know atheists who know a lot more about Christianity than the average Christian. That's not to say that all or even most atheists are like that, but it isn't uncommon for someone to start out as a Christian, learn something they aren't comfortable with, study it more, get even more uncomfortable but want to have faith and will keep looking for something to redeem what has been causing them discomfort and keep finding things that bother them until it gets to the point that they can no longer consider themselves Christian and leave the church. By that point yes, they do know a whole lot about what Christianity is.

For me, it was the doctrine of hell. I can't imagine anyone doing something to merit something so awful.

[Nekojin]

My understanding is that the Old Testament is, with the exception of the Ten Commandments, only supposed to be used as reference material. A history book, if you will. Teach your lesson from the New Testament, but refer to the Old Testament where needed.

At no point, ever, was such a distinction ever made during my days in Sunday School and Catholic Day Care. If that's the way the clergy believe, then there's a distinct breach in communication between how it's applied and how it's taught.

[crashhelmet]

Both Southern Baptists and Catholics (the two denominations I had direct contact with) teach both Old Testament and New Testament, and I've never been to any sermons in either church that made any sort of distinction - both are Holy. Trying to make a hard line between what is or isn't followed isn't so easy as simply discarding the Old Testament.

My understanding is that the Old Testament is, with the exception of the Ten Commandments, only supposed to be used as reference material. A history book, if you will. Teach your lesson from the New Testament, but refer to the Old Testament where needed.

[crashhelmet]

I actually do know atheists who know a lot more about Christianity than the average Christian. That's not to say that all or even most atheists are like that, but it isn't uncommon for someone to start out as a Christian, learn something they aren't comfortable with, study it more, get even more uncomfortable but want to have faith and will keep looking for something to redeem what has been causing them discomfort and keep finding things that bother them until it gets to the point that they can no longer consider themselves Christian and leave the church. By that point yes, they do know a whole lot about what Christianity is.

You do have the occasional "reformed" atheist, someone who did study and find it wasn't for them, but in most cases you've got someone that just wants to troll or sound like they're more educated than they are. And it's the same crap they spout off all the time.

[Nekojin]

I think the point Atheists try to make by doing that is that Christian bigots like to pick and choose what parts of the bible to follow. As far as I know, the ONLY part of the bible that mentions stoning/killing homosexuals is the Old Testament, which is of course the Jewish bible. The Christian bible (The New Testament) states that you should love your fellow man, let he who has never sinned cast the first stone, etc.

Unfortunately, the bigots who use the bible as a reason for their hatred aren't going to listen when you point out how much evil shit is in the Old Testament - things that, in this day and age, you'd be arrested for following.

Both Southern Baptists and Catholics (the two denominations I had direct contact with) teach both Old Testament and New Testament, and I've never been to any sermons in either church that made any sort of distinction - both are Holy. Trying to make a hard line between what is or isn't followed isn't so easy as simply discarding the Old Testament.