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Raised in a two-religion family

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  • Panacea
    replied
    Originally posted by Aragarthiel View Post
    Babies have holy water sprinkled/rubbed on their foreheads, I'm assuming they could do the same with adults if you asked. I don't see the point in baptizing babies anyway, the belief is that if you're not baptized you don't go to heaven, but in the same conversation you can be told that children can't be held accountable for their own actions until the "Age of Accountability," or 12 years old. So if you die before age 12, you're pretty much guaranteed a place in heaven even if you're not baptized.
    Different churches have very different approaches to baptism. Catholics only baptize once. Once baptized you're never supposed to do it again. Baptized converts simply go through Confirmation and First Eucharist (if you have a Triune baptism, the Church recognizes it).

    Baptism itself can go from the sprinkle to the full dunk in the Catholic church. I had a full immersion Baptism as an adult, and we do the dunk with the babies too (just the baby's bottom gets dunked). Baptists usually go for the full immersion. Other Christians YMMV.

    Originally posted by mjr View Post
    That's interesting. Was your dad baptized as an infant? My sister was.

    The reason I ask is that a lot of denominations believe that you have to consciously make the decision to be baptized.
    Most Protestant denominations believe that. Catholics can actually wait too, but most parents choose not to. The whole babies go to Limbo thing is not official church doctrine anymore, but a lot of cradle Catholics still believe it.

    My parents didn't baptize me or my brother because they both came from sects that did adult baptism. They felt it should be my choice, and I'm actually grateful to them for that. It made things that much more special for me when I did decide to get baptized.

    Protestants who place a big emphasis on baptism (fundamentalists mostly, especially Baptists) make a big deal of repeated baptism. They host big baptismal events to reconnect with their faith. Pilgrimages to the River Jordon are especially popular.
    Last edited by Panacea; 04-21-2015, 01:46 AM.

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  • HYHYBT
    replied
    Dad was baptized as an infant, Mom at whatever age she said she wanted it. Methodists normally sprinkle, but immersion is also acceptable. Baptists dunk, period. As for when to do it... it's more a matter of perspective, as I see it.

    Churches that baptize infants have a confirmation ceremony once the child is old enough. Churches that wait until then to baptize often have a baby dedication ceremony. It's mostly the same stuff either way, just handled a bit differently.

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  • s_stabeler
    replied
    Originally posted by Aragarthiel View Post
    I don't see the point in baptizing babies anyway, the belief is that if you're not baptized you don't go to heaven,
    which is interesting, ( the same for all the various churches who give a long list of rules to get into heaven) when you consider that, as far as I know, God actively tries to let people into heaven. ( If I remember correctly, Jesus himself said that it wasn't following the various rituals of the church that got you into heaven, but how you acted- which, quite frankly, makes me suspect that is there is a heaven, a couple of popes may well have received an unpleasant surprise when they discovered where they were spending their afterlife.

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  • Andara Bledin
    replied
    Baptism doesn't have to be literal. There are all sorts of figurative forms of baptism depending on your denomination and how strict they are.

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  • Aragarthiel
    replied
    Originally posted by mjr View Post
    And you can be baptized, based on my understanding, without the whole "being dunked in the water" thing.
    Babies have holy water sprinkled/rubbed on their foreheads, I'm assuming they could do the same with adults if you asked. I don't see the point in baptizing babies anyway, the belief is that if you're not baptized you don't go to heaven, but in the same conversation you can be told that children can't be held accountable for their own actions until the "Age of Accountability," or 12 years old. So if you die before age 12, you're pretty much guaranteed a place in heaven even if you're not baptized.

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  • mjr
    replied
    Originally posted by HYHYBT View Post
    I had (have, for that matter) Methodist-Baptist parents too. When they married, and up until I was about six, they went to the Methodist church because it would accept Mom's baptism, but the Baptists wouldn't accept Dad's.
    That's interesting. Was your dad baptized as an infant? My sister was.

    The reason I ask is that a lot of denominations believe that you have to consciously make the decision to be baptized.

    And you can be baptized, based on my understanding, without the whole "being dunked in the water" thing.

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  • HYHYBT
    replied
    I had (have, for that matter) Methodist-Baptist parents too. When they married, and up until I was about six, they went to the Methodist church because it would accept Mom's baptism, but the Baptists wouldn't accept Dad's.

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  • mjr
    replied
    Originally posted by Aragarthiel View Post
    I'm asking for opinions on this, maybe from people who were raised in families with two religions. I have so little experience with religion that I really don't know what's best for her in this aspect.
    When I was a kid, we went to both a Methodist and a Baptist church. We switched from one to the other.

    My father's family was Methodist. I think my mother really didn't have a specific denomination, she just happened to find a church she liked that was Baptist, and that's where she went, so that's where I went. My dad stopped going to church after a while.

    I consider myself a Christian, but I haven't been to church in years.

    My immediate family is in a similar situation. My wife is an atheist of Jewish descent. We do Christmas, Passover, Easter, and Chanukkah.

    It might not be a bad idea to buy your daughter one of those "children's bibles" and let her read that, as good "exposure" to Christianity in general. I'm facing the same decisions you are. I want my son to at least be exposed to it, and see where I'm coming from. When he's older, he can read and decide.

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  • HYHYBT
    replied
    How the brain thinks is formed all along. If you raise a child without religion, you're largely foreclosing the possibility of any benefit they might have gained from it. Whereas if you raise them with a (reasonable) religion, they have both maintaining that (or adopting a different one) and abandoning it as genuine options.

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  • Aragarthiel
    replied
    Originally posted by jedimaster91 View Post
    As for why non-religious people might want their children to go to a church, I have a theory...

    /snip

    ...As the child grows and experiences the world, they can start to make those distinctions of what they truly believe and what they don't.
    This is one reason, though I personally have another. I spend many of my younger years wanting to know what the world was about, where we go when we die, and things like that. It was a long and difficult road for me, where I had to reject a lot of what people told me, because I didn't feel it was right. For example, there's a Bible quote that says that taking God's name in vain is the one unforgivable sin, but I don't think that any sort of benevolent being would damn someone to a fiery pit to be tortured for all of eternity if their only slip-up was to say "Oh my God." There are things like that throughout various religious teachings that I have a real problem with.

    I want my daughter to have someone to go to for the questions I had to answer by myself. That was something that I really felt like I was missing in my life and I don't want her to feel that way, too. Even if she goes for only the first few years of her life, it's a foundation that I'll be glad she got.

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  • jedimaster91
    replied
    Originally posted by Andara Bledin View Post
    It's worth nothing <snip> that I believe religion to be a profoundly personal thing and thus find outward displays of religiosity to be ostentatious and potentially offensive (and if you're Christian, the Bible said not to be overt in your worship, anyway).
    There's a difference between advertising one is of a certain faith and sincerely living one's life in accordance with those teachings and other people notice. For instance, I don't drink, smoke, or partake in recreational drugs (partly due to religious beliefs, partly because they'd make me sick). When you're at a vendor party on Bourbon St in New Orleans and the only one drinking Sprite instead of whatever cocktail everyone else has, it's noticeable. People who are sincere in their beliefs tend to act differently in some respects than those who either have no particular beliefs or are not as diligent in living the way their religion teaches they should.

    As for why non-religious people might want their children to go to a church, I have a theory. Adults have a long time to observe the world around them and make decisions on what they believe to be wrong or right. Adults also have the advantage of a fully developed brain (eventually anyway) and are capable of reasoning out those decisions. Young kids don't have that ability yet. It's a much easier starting point to say don't hit your sister because God says not to than to try to explain to a child who's toy got snatched away the concept of turn the other cheek. I used to teach the 8-9 year old Sunday School class and there was a huge disconnect between what they "knew" they "should" do in a given scenario and what they actually did. They weren't bad kids per se, just not able to extrapolate information from the lesson to real life. So in other words, church is a good beginning framework for morality. It doesn't necessarily have to be the complete framework for the child's entire life, but it can form the foundation. As the child grows and experiences the world, they can start to make those distinctions of what they truly believe and what they don't.
    Last edited by jedimaster91; 04-08-2015, 10:54 PM.

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  • Andara Bledin
    replied
    You know... I just don't get this need for children to be raised with a faith. It just baffles me.

    Of course, if one or both parents are religious, it would make sense for them to include any children in that aspect of their lives, but being good people with solid values should be all that any child requires to grow up to be a decent individual.

    And if said child grows to feel that there is something more that they're missing, the Internet has such a glut of information on all of the choices available (far more than any local church could possibly offer), that nobody who really cares would be lacking in opportunities to learn and choose their own path.

    It's worth nothing that I don't have children and that I believe religion to be a profoundly personal thing and thus find outward displays of religiosity to be ostentatious and potentially offensive (and if you're Christian, the Bible said not to be overt in your worship, anyway).

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  • Barracuda
    replied
    Most Christians undergo a test of their faith while in their late teen years or early 20s. Some churches' doctrine actually allow for this (such as the Catholic custom of confirmation once the child is old enough to decide if he or she really wants to stay Catholic.) Speaking as a Christian who was raised in the faith, I think you should raise your child with a solid framework and take her to church on a regular basis. Then, when she is old enough, she can decide for herself if it's really for her, if she wants to stay with what she has been taught, try other options, or simply discontinue any kind of religious belief. Laying the foundation is the most important thing--teach your child the Bible, and encourage her to discover what she believes and why. No adult Christian's faith can survive without making the transition from "my parents taught me this is true" to "this is what I believe to be true and this is why". Prepare her for that moment, and she will have a solid base to rely on later in life.

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  • CriminalMindsRocks
    replied
    Originally posted by Panacea View Post
    My mother used to say, "You don't have to go to Church to believe in God." Of course, my priest would disagree with this, and so would most ministers. However, I think there is some truth to it. We all find God in our own way, if we're looking for Him.
    ^^^ THIS! 100X this, church is NOT about the building itself, if you seek the Lord in an empty field He will be there. "where 3 or more are gathered in MY NAME I am there in the midst of them"

    You know where I was baptized? I was baptized in the backyard swimming pool at our pastor's son's house, was it fancy? nope, but I can tell you that the spirit of the Lord was among us & really, that's ALL that counts

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  • Panacea
    replied
    Originally posted by Aragarthiel View Post
    I'm asking for opinions on this, maybe from people who were raised in families with two religions. I have so little experience with religion that I really don't know what's best for her in this aspect.
    My mother was a Congregationalist (modern day Puritan), and my father was raised Baptist. Dad was pretty disinterested in religon. Mom considered her church to no longer exist when the only pastor she'd ever known finally retired.

    The only thing they agreed on was not to baptize either me or my brother as babies, and leave that decision up to us when we were old enough. As a child, there were 3 choices in our area: Baptist (Dad said HELL NO!), Catholic (Mom said HELL NO!) and Methodist. So we went to the Methodist church until I was 8 or so. I remember having just graduated from Sunday School and was able to attend real church when Dad said we were leaving the church. He was angry with the pastor, who liked to arm twist members into donating more money than they could afford. The pastor wanted to grow the church very quickly (and he did).

    Most of my friends growing up were Catholic. I went to Mass occasionally when they invited me, and enjoyed it but it didn't do much for me at the time. I also continued involvement with the Methodist Church on my own, with the help of neighbors still with the church, mostly in the summer, but was disenchanted with it by the time I turned 18 (the church politics turned me off). And the truth is, every time I step into a Methodist Church, I walk out angry. There is something just so smug, self congratulatory, and obnoxious about the Methodists that I just can't stand anymore . . . and I've found it wasn't just the church I went to as a kid.

    Granted: I'm well aware that many people feel the same way about the Catholic Church. YMMV.

    I spent the following 20 years as an agnostic. However, I investigated, and rejected, a lot of different religious paths including Wicca, Ba'hai, and Buddhism. Nothing fit, until something happened and Catholicism called. I finished my conversion 2 years ago.

    Getting to the point: if you have no religious path of your own, it will be harder to guide your daughter. My mother used to say, "You don't have to go to Church to believe in God." Of course, my priest would disagree with this, and so would most ministers. However, I think there is some truth to it. We all find God in our own way, if we're looking for Him.

    I think there is nothing wrong with exploring the Bible with your daughter on your own, and taking her to Sunday school at your husband's church so she can learn something about his faith. Exploring other religions is something that really should wait until she is old enough to understand what she is looking at.

    I would suggest the idea of her attending church occassionally with her friends. The exposure to diversity in religious beliefs will be good for her, especially if she has friends who are non-Christian. She'll learn tolerance for the beliefs of others.
    Last edited by Panacea; 04-08-2015, 03:24 AM.

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