I'm not selfish, and I know why your wife left you (warning: TMI)

[cewfa]

It's totally not a Christian only sort of thing.

It's an authoritarian sort of thing, and if you're in a majority-Christian environment, you're really only going to get that from Christians. Most authoritarians trying to use other holy creeds to support their authoritarianism are going to either do so in places where those creeds are the majority, or in isolation where those creeds are the majority.

Also, have you never heard of Jews pointing fingers about other Jews not being Jewish enough? And, depressingly enough, you run into the same sort of thing from Buddhists. It happens in any situation where there is an authority figure giving instruction on how to behave to those who are ostensibly less enlightened.

I get what you are saying, but from personal experience Christians are the only ones who have made it a point to tell me what I should and should not be doing with my penis. I guess it wasn't so obvious when I was younger and more impressionable, but now that I am older and more mature, it's starting to really weird me out. I'm starting to understand, for instance, how women feel when Christians (mainly) tell them how they should use their bodies and how they should and shouldn't reproduce. Men, in men's group, get the same shtick.

My theory is that these people repress themselves so much sexually and have issues coming to terms with their sexuality that this has nothing really to with God's commandments, as it is that they are acting out because they really repress themselves. Quite frankly, the more I think about the conversation in the group last night, the more I feel sexually assaulted in a way, and I am not sure I can go back to that group. I plan on taking to the Small Group Pastor on Sunday and letting him know how I feel.

[Gravekeeper]

It's totally not a Christian only sort of thing.

Honestly? Yes, actually it is. Or more specifically its an Abrahamic religion thing. Authoritarianism is a separate matter from the problem of "Feel ashamed of your genitals or we'll stone you" thing that Abrahamic religions historically had going on. Though Abrahamic religions are, at their root, authoritarian to begin with.

The Precepts of Buddhism regarding sex are voluntary for self betterment for example. Not mandated or commanded. Authoritarianism is just the mechanism of enforcement, not the root problem of the whole sex/shame thing in Abrahamic religions. Symptom, not the disease, etc.

Obviously, these days not all denominations are like that at all. This its mainly just the fundie/conservative ones. They can't really stone you anymore so they had to ramp up the shame/guilt side of things. In some ways its actually more damaging.

[Andara Bledin]

It's totally not a Christian only sort of thing.

It's an authoritarian sort of thing, and if you're in a majority-Christian environment, you're really only going to get that from Christians. Most authoritarians trying to use other holy creeds to support their authoritarianism are going to either do so in places where those creeds are the majority, or in isolation where those creeds are the majority.

Also, have you never heard of Jews pointing fingers about other Jews not being Jewish enough? And, depressingly enough, you run into the same sort of thing from Buddhists. It happens in any situation where there is an authority figure giving instruction on how to behave to those who are ostensibly less enlightened.

[cewfa]

You know, in the 15 years I've been involved with church and Christians, Christians are the only people I know of that seem to be fascinated with what other people do with their bodies. It's starting make me a little uncomfortable. I almost want to ask these men if this is really about God and not some kinky fetish they have.

I may talk to the program coordinator at church on Sunday about it and see once what the deal is.

[AccountingDrone]

I don't have any numbers to back this up, but don't most people fantasize when they masturbate?

Can't men generally also depend on simple nerve stimulation and reflex? They certainly can get off with what I would consider minimal interaction in real sex. [What can I say, screwing teens back when I was that age is why I started seeing much older men - they didn't tend to pop off after a couple minutes of screwing and I could actually manage to get my rocks off as well. Patience is a virtue in men =) ]

[Andara Bledin]

Having slept on the situation and cooled off some (I posted this when I was mad), I've come to realize that I shouldn't have expected any different from them. It isn't their opinion on the subject that pisses me off, more that someone who doesn't know me told me I am selfish. Especially someone who comes across as saying that it will be his way or the highway in terms of reconciling with his wife. He, himself, came across as very selfish, at least to me.

He's projecting.

He's the selfish one, but since he can't admit that to himself and he's mad (at least subconsciously) about his own selfishness, he lashes out at others and decries them for being selfish, instead.

[Rageaholic]

But I think what's going on with the men in the group is they're either interpreting scripture wrong, or they're being imprecise in what they're saying. Based on the link above, I think the argument that they're trying to make is that it's what happens during the act (i.e. fantasizing about someone) is the sin -- not the act of masturbating itself. Or, its the things that lead to masturbation (lust, etc.) that are the sins.

I don't have any numbers to back this up, but don't most people fantasize when they masturbate?

[cewfa]

Having slept on the situation and cooled off some (I posted this when I was mad), I've come to realize that I shouldn't have expected any different from them. It isn't their opinion on the subject that pisses me off, more that someone who doesn't know me told me I am selfish. Especially someone who comes across as saying that it will be his way or the highway in terms of reconciling with his wife. He, himself, came across as very selfish, at least to me.

I can speak from personal experience that when you are in a relationship with someone if you approach it from the standpoint of it is my way or the highway that he/she is going to eventually choose the highway.

As for Christians, I know that these gentlemen mean well, and this will not stop me from going to church. I like church and I like to hear the teachings of the pastor and to worship. I won't let anyone take that away from me.

[mjr]

Christians really piss me off.

Please don't judge all Christians based on the ones in your group. I'm a Christian, and if I go longer than probably 3 or 4 days without sex, I take care of things myself, if you catch my drift.

I think I know where they're coming from. There's scripture in the Old Testament about not spilling your semen on the ground.

Read Genesis 38:8-10, which follows:

8 Then Judah said to Onan, “Sleep with your brother’s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to raise up offspring for your brother.” 9 But Onan knew that the child would not be his; so whenever he slept with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from providing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so the Lord put him to death also.

Anyway, I think that's what they're referring to. There's no mention of anything like that anywhere in the New Testament.

But to further the point, another link I found says that Onan was put to death not because he "spilled his semen on the ground", but because he was intentionally trying to keep his brother's wife from getting pregnant.

More here: http://www.gotquestions.org/masturbation-sin.html

But I think what's going on with the men in the group is they're either interpreting scripture wrong, or they're being imprecise in what they're saying. Based on the link above, I think the argument that they're trying to make is that it's what happens during the act (i.e. fantasizing about someone) is the sin -- not the act of masturbating itself. Or, its the things that lead to masturbation (lust, etc.) that are the sins.

This site here: http://www.acts17-11.com/dialogs_masturbation.html

Says:

Since scripture does not forbid masturbation directly, neither should Christians in general.

I think it's commendable that you've started a group for adults on the autism spectrum. You'll be rewarded in some way or another for that. That's going to be a blessing to you, and to those who attend the group, and those who are near to those individuals.

[AccountingDrone]

If God didn't want us to fap, he would not have made us able to fap. [Would that be I fap, therefor I am?]

[Rageaholic]

This is one of my hot buttons as well. God gives us sexual drives and desires and then punishes us for using them, even when the only person affected is ourselves. I've heard all the Christian apologist BS trying to explain how this makes any sense at all. It doesn't and trying to make people ashamed of their sexuality is cruel.

[cewfa]

I went to a men's group tonight and one of the topics that was brought up was masturbation. I went against the group, as I am an unrepentant masturbator. I don't feel like masturbation is a sin, nor do I feel like God cares whether or not you or I masturbate. I told them that there are animals that masturbate as well as have "alternative" sexual lifestyles. I asked if God really cared and if God sends animals to hell because they masturbate or exhibited homosexual tendencies. I have yet to get a satisfactory answer to this question, and one group mate told me I was selfish.

It took all of my willpower not to tell him to go fuck himself. He doesn't know me. I can tell you that I have done a lot for my community. I have taken it upon myself to start a group for adults on the autism spectrum. He was also telling us about how his wife left him and that she did this and that, and when she told him what she wanted for them to reconciliate that he told her that he wouldn't do that. Then he said that he didn't know why his wife left him. Protip, your wife left you because you're an asshole.

Christians really piss me off.