"Stealthing" -- have any of you heard of this!?

[catcul]

Hello from the BDSM community. As I was taught, consent is a "yes" answer, not an "absence of no." If the guy agrees to put on a condom to have sex with another adult only to take it off intentionally during the act, that is non-consensual sex. Non-consensual sex is considered rape. It might be rape by fraud instead of forcible rape, but it's still rape. Intentionally sabotaging a condom would be considered rape as well.

As for the broken condom, if a condom either breaks or falls off, that's considered an accident.
Both partners should make sure that doesn't happen in the future.

It seems that the State of California agrees with me.

California has made stealthing illegal.

[D_Yeti_Esquire]

I'm sure it has a lot to do with the individual and they type of condom used though. Some condoms more sensitive for the guy in which case the loss might not be as noticeable. Some condoms are rougher for the women so if it came off she may notice immediately.

My guess is in practice it would probably be more easy for a guy who tried to pull the stunt to tamper so it falls off naturally, but I have to confess I'm not sure how either party wouldn't notice.

And sign me up for catcul and bara's take - if you invalidate the terms that consent was given, yea that's sexual assault.

[Greenday]

Maybe I'm being naive here but even in the heat of the moment, I Could easily feel if the girl was trying to take off the condom. Vice versa, wouldn't the girl also know whats going on if there's a sudden pause in the 'action'?

From everyone I've talked to, it's a lot easier for a guy to tell if a condom is on or not.

[drjonah]

Maybe I'm being naive here but even in the heat of the moment, I Could easily feel if the girl was trying to take off the condom. Vice versa, wouldn't the girl also know whats going on if there's a sudden pause in the 'action'?

[bara]

If its not consent its rape. A grey area would be if people are so under the influence of some intoxicating substance they forget. But if its on purpose its rape.

[bara]

Tanasi's question is an interesting one...



Would you apply the same logic the other way around? If the woman obtains consent for sex with a condom, then sabotages the condom to become pregnant? Leaving aside the difficulty of proving that: would you still consider it rape?

Still rape.

[bara]

Its rape plain and simple.

[Canarr]

Tanasi's question is an interesting one...

"I consent to vaginal sex while you wear a condom.
*doesn't wear a condom*

I didn't consent to that."

sounds like rape to me. It doesn't have to be violent to be rape.

Would you apply the same logic the other way around? If the woman obtains consent for sex with a condom, then sabotages the condom to become pregnant? Leaving aside the difficulty of proving that: would you still consider it rape?

[s_stabeler]

the act itself is just as bad, but there are additional motivations- which can also apply to a man tricking a woman inot getting pregnant- that could aggravate it.(basically, motivation matters)

[Tanasi]

This topic came up on local talk radio and an interesting twist was brought up. What about the women that agree to sex but then through deception purposely get pregnant? I've heard of women and men purposely poking a hole in condoms but also women that falsely tell their partner they are on birth-control when they aren't.
Is one worse than the other?

[gremcint]

"I consent to vaginal sex while you wear a condom.
*doesn't wear a condom*

I didn't consent to that."

sounds like rape to me. It doesn't have to be violent to be rape.

[catcul]

Hello from the BDSM community. As I was taught, consent is a "yes" answer, not an "absence of no." If the guy agrees to put on a condom to have sex with another adult only to take it off intentionally during the act, that is non-consensual sex. Non-consensual sex is considered rape. It might be rape by fraud instead of forcible rape, but it's still rape. Intentionally sabotaging a condom would be considered rape as well.

As for the broken condom, if a condom either breaks or falls off, that's considered an accident.
Both partners should make sure that doesn't happen in the future.

[Greenday]

I think there is a difference. Yes, inserting your penis when they only consent to fingering is rape. However, the way I see it, consent is to insertion of the penis, regardless of if it's in a condom or not.

However, I don't disagree that it should be a criminal offence. I just don't see it as being rape specifically.

But it's not just consent to insert a penis. It's a consent to have safe sex that prevents disease and pregnancy. It's not consent to risk that stuff. You are forcing unnecessary risks on someone they don't want. And it should absolutely be a criminal offense to force someone to do something sexually they don't want to do.

[s_stabeler]

I think there is a difference. Yes, inserting your penis when they only consent to fingering is rape. However, the way I see it, consent is to insertion of the penis, regardless of if it's in a condom or not.

However, I don't disagree that it should be a criminal offence. I just don't see it as being rape specifically.

[Greenday]

It depends, but it's not sexual assault, since sexual assault in this context is rape, and "stealthing" does not in and of itself invalidate consent.

Wouldn't it invalidate it if you only agreed to have protected sex?