Father Teaches Daughter Lesson About Facebook

[Boozy]

First of all, I KNOW there are a few on the side of the Father that do NOT have children, have not raised a child(ren), or heavily assisted in the upbringing of a child(ren). This is VERY apparent in your responces AND logic AND reasoning.

Are you kidding me? Ree has not only raised her own daughter, but has been a foster parent to many kids (how many now, Ree?)

When it comes to dealing with troubled teenage girls, Ree has more experience than anyone here.

Edit: With all of that said, your post goes on to make the same arguments as Ree, so I'm not entirely sure what point you were trying to make in calling out her "lack of experience". It appears you two are arguing the same side. Am I missing something?

[Racket_Man]

I haven't even watched the video.
I saw it posted on several of my friends' FB walls.
There was a headline on my homepage when I opened my browser.
I read a description of what the video contained, and that was enough for me.

The very fact that the father filmed it and posted it was enough to make me think he was a total dick. His sole purpose was to humiliate his daughter. He succeeded.

The teen sounded like a spoiled, obnoxious brat, but I am a firm believer that their behaviour as they grow is a reflection of the parenting they have been given.

If she was posting nasty crap on FB about her parents and the "cleaning lady", then he should be asking himself what kind of values he has taught his daughter.
If she was so spoiled that she felt actually helping out around the house was beneath her, then he needs to stop and think about where that perception may have come from.

He destroyed an expensive piece of electronics that he will probably go out and replace once the spotlight is off of them.

I agree with the comment that, if this was another adult, or the guy's spouse who had complained, that type of behaviour would be considered totally inappropriate.

I do not commend his parenting skills at all.

First of all, I KNOW there are a few on the side of the Father that do NOT have children, have not raised a child(ren), or heavily assisted in the upbringing of a child(ren). This is VERY apparent in your responces AND logic AND reasoning.

This is one of those situations where being a parent (and not some Monday morning armchair quarterback) has a lot of relevance. Unless you have had upclose and personal experience with children (at all ages) I think you just to not get it.


parenting by its vary nature does NOT have a black and white set of nice and neat rules or proceudres to follow printed in a attractive book. Most parents "wing it", do what their parents did with them and just do the best they can. though there are some who follow the "advice" of some quack pop psychologist(s) and think their child(ren) will automatically l turn out nice mentally healthy adults. believe me it is NEVER that easy. unless you are very very lucky and give birth to that "perfect child" you will have a lifetime struggle (and no parenting does NOT end at age 18 or when they leave the house for most parents).

my DD was, to use a phrase "diffucult". despite all our (mine and my Ex's) efforts she was a child that could have easily been abused (NOTE I SAID could have been she was not abused). DD had a "I don';t want to listen to anything you have to say" and "I WILL do my own thing" mentality reguardless of ANY consiquences we set forth. at home this was at least partially controlable. once she got into school it became a team effort.

We even worked with my Mother (DD's grandmother) to try and give DD consequences. we tried dangling DDs annual week with Grandma as an incentive to "improve" her behavior. Grandma even got on the phone with DD to explain the situation. we even placed a calander on DDs door to remind her of her "progress". that lasted 2 week and totally fell apart because of DDs behavior. and NO she did not get to go to Gramdma's that summer (NOTE the follow through on our part).

along the way we got the usual "I HATE YOU" message screamed at us for consequences we put forth. Did we, at times, seriously consider smashing and breaking dd stuff??? YES BUT we never did becaused we realized that we were lowering ourselves to her level. was there childish behavior???? YES

We just took stuff away each and everytime, got screamed at, but in the end it seemed DD did learn something.

Is a parent acting like a 5 year old acceptable???? NO!! is that same parent acting like a 5 year old in a public forum acceptable???? HELL NO!!!!

As a PARENT you must consider the example you set. sure it will be difficult along the way and the road will be bumpy and long, but in end you do the best you can. I do not care how MANY child psychologists say they have the answer --- THEY DO NOT.

Now throw in genetics, environment, socialisation, peers, home environment, parenting style, school, premissiveness or control, siblings, rivaliry out and inside of the home, and a host of other factors and you have a witch'a brew of what is called personality (from the meek and mild to the psycho).

I this girl "normal"????? as far as normal goes maybe. a little spoiled perhaps. will she carry the "scars" of this childish situation????? YES does her parents come accross as childish????? YES


I think in this stituation we do not know all of the things that have gone on prior to this "shooting gallery" situation

[MadMike]

Because that's what he told her would happen if she did this again. She had prior warning of the consequences of her actions, and he followed through to let her know that when he says he's going to do something, that's what he's going to do.

That sounds like an argument an abuser would make. "I got home from work, and dinner wasn't ready. I told her if it happened again, she'd get a black eye. Well, it happened again the next day, so I gave her a black eye. She was warned what would happen. That woman has to learn her place."

I have so many problems with what the father did, for so many reasons. Was it OK for the daughter to badmouth him like she did? No, it wasn't, but as a parent myself, I understand that you have to realize that no matter how fair you think you're being, sooner or later, your child is going to think you're a bastard, and possibly even vent about it. My son and I don't always get along, and if I found out he was venting to his friends about what a terrible father I was, I'd be hurt, but I certainly wouldn't go destroying things over it. You have to have a thick skin if you're going to have kids. They're not always going to worship the ground you walk on, and to expect them to is just ridiculous.

The violent acting out that the father did also troubles me. How many abusers destroy personal belongings to flex their self-perceived muscles? And in many cases, first it's just objects they're throwing around, but eventually it's the other person.

Someone pointed out that the daughter is going to remember this even after she grows up, and resent him for it forever. I agree with that one as well. While my parents weren't bad parents, they made a few mistakes along the way, and I still resent some of those mistakes to this day, and I'm going to be 43 in a week. And I know I overreacted a few times to some of the scuffles my son and I have had while he was growing up. While he and I get along for the most part, and he even tells me I was a "good dad", especially with him having to grow up without a mother, I hate to think how the screwups I did make are going to stick with him.

Bottom line, the father proved himself to be an immature bully, and a jackass.

[HYHYBT]

I think getting kids to understand what a reasonable parent puts down as a rule will be followed or a punishment will quickly follow.

Of course. This isn't even in dispute, so why position this as if it were? But a reasonable parent does not make a rule that you must never complain. And a reasonable parent doesn't stage a public tantrum.

Note to all would-be Facebook ranters: Don't exclude people you don't want to see something, because you will always forget or miss someone.

Better yet, don't put things you want to exclude *anyone* from on Facebook.

His posting went out to his contact list, not the entire world. Yes, the entire world ended up having access to the YouTube video, but he did not seek out views.

I think he did. Otherwise, Youtube has a feature (the name of which I cannot remember) where only certain people can see a video, and surely such an expert would know about it.

As far as punishing her for expressing her opinion: Sure, she has the right to do so. How, exactly, does that absolve her of any consequence should she be disrespectful in the process?

How is it rational FOR THIS TO BE a consequence of being disrespectful, particularly under the circumstances (those being that it was *intended* that he wouldn't hear it)?

What did he do that was either irrational or insane?

He threw a tantrum on Youtube for the world to see (and, again, it *was* meant for the world to see, proven by his not making the video private if nothing else) to punish his daughter for complaining.

This wasn't just that she went online to rant to her peers. This was that she'd been grounded for ranting online to her peers quite recently...

...which was itself unreasonable. "Ranting to peers" should carry NO penalty. And he makes it pretty clear that's what this was about. If it were *only* a matter of being careful about what you let the public see, and how if you're going to say that sort of thing you should be sure it's not where others can happen on it, that would be different. But it's all too plain that's not what this is about.

As for the importance of following through on promised punishments... that only goes if the punishment is close enough to reasonable. (In this case, considering this an *offense* is at least problematic, much less the level of response.)

[kibbles]

Taking away things as punishment is perfectly acceptable, using a loaded weapon as a way of punishing a child is unstable at best. Using a gun to teach a child a lesson..I think that's the proof right there that he is unstable.

And that's not even to point out the videotaping and public posting as Ree pointed out.

[Ree]

I guess it's the "waste" factor that I have a hard time getting around. If he sold the thing or gave it away, it would strike me as a lot less warped.

Why bring the gun out in the first place?

That is exactly my problem with it.
That, and the videotaping and public posting.

[fireheart17]

Pretty much what gravekeeper said.

I do think it's irrational. Not just to do, but to threaten with. I guess it's the "waste" factor that I have a hard time getting around. If he sold the thing or gave it away, it would strike me as a lot less warped.

Why bring the gun out in the first place? I've got an impressive sword collection, but I don't threaten to hack things to bits when I'm offended. I may get mad enough to break shit sometimes, but I don't actually do it. Self control is a good thing!

And if the daughter was really as bad as her father makes her out to be, where did she get that from? Kids don't develop in a vacuum. Just what went wrong here? Why did this girl feel she needed to rant on facebook, and couldn't speak to her parents honestly? Some parents are just not that approachable or reasonable.

I'll go through your points one at a time:

1. I could've seen the selling part as being rational too. In fact, I think someone on the CS.com forums had to return one of her kids toys because she was misbehaving.

2. Definitely agreed. Was there a need to be that extreme?

3. I can think of a few areas, but again I would agree.

[Greenday]

Except it's completely different because a parent-child relationship and taking away stuff as a punishment is okay. Kid getting too many tickets in the car you bought them? Take their keys. Kid spends way too much time on their laptop slamming their parents for being parents? Make sure they can't use it anymore.

Amanita, why NOT bring out the gun? What exactly is wrong with using a gun to destroy a laptop? It's quick, it's effective, and it gets the point across quite well.

kibbles, I'm sorry but there's just no proof whatsoever that he's a lunatic or unstable. What he did was very rational. If he had gone on a shooting spree in an anger fueled rage, that'd be unstable and make him a lunatic. Instead he calmed sat down, read the letter, and did his thing. At no point in that video did I see any evidence to support the argument that he isn't in the right mind.

[kibbles]

Gravekeeper hit the nail on the head...and to take it a bit further the father came off as a lunatic because his actions actually indicate he is IMO. And it is not too far of a stretch to think that someone who uses a gun to show consequences would also use a gun to deal with people.

Not a very stable person IMO.

[Amanita]

Pretty much what gravekeeper said.

I do think it's irrational. Not just to do, but to threaten with. I guess it's the "waste" factor that I have a hard time getting around. If he sold the thing or gave it away, it would strike me as a lot less warped.

Why bring the gun out in the first place? I've got an impressive sword collection, but I don't threaten to hack things to bits when I'm offended. I may get mad enough to break shit sometimes, but I don't actually do it. Self control is a good thing!

And if the daughter was really as bad as her father makes her out to be, where did she get that from? Kids don't develop in a vacuum. Just what went wrong here? Why did this girl feel she needed to rant on facebook, and couldn't speak to her parents honestly? Some parents are just not that approachable or reasonable.

[Gravekeeper]

Consequences are not the problem here. How dad went about those consequences is the problem.

If you took any other two people and placed them in this scenario, yes, dad would come across as kind of a lunatic. Yet apparently its okay because he's doing this to his own child instead of someone else. Let's try it this way:

Someone gives you a laptop as a gift. At a later date, you use the laptop to complain to some friends about that person in a matter that was intended to not be seen by that person. Person finds out somehow. Person then takes the laptop back, posts a video on Youtube for the whole world to see where they read your Facebook out loud and feel the need to defend themselves from it while deriding you for it. Then they shoot the laptop on camera.

Those are not the actions of a mature adult. So why are they automatically excusable because he's a parent? If this guy was 15 instead of 40 the court of public opinion would be crucifying him.

[Ree]

Lots of Monday morning quarterbacking and back seat parenting going on here.

People love to talk about how, if a teenager acts a certain way or displays a certain behavior, it's the parents' fault. How many of you, when your teenager has done something ridiculous, stop and say, to yourselves and/or them, "I know I taught you better than that. Where did this come from?"

I don't pretend to have been a perfect parent.
I did, however, raise my child with certain values and expected certain behaviours from her.

Of course there were things my daughter did where I said, "You know better than that."
Some of it was peer pressure.
Some of it was just her testing boundaries to see what she could get away with.

Overall, though, aside from lapses in judgment over things like drinking or smoking, her actions were never a total betrayal of the values with which she was raised.

If she posted on FB that she was sick of doing all the work around the house, I think I would have just laughed it off and chalked it up to simply her grumbling, and I would have made some kind of joke about it, or just ignored it.
That's because I would realize she really wasn't that selfish and rude, and this was just her having a bad day.

So, for this father to have jumped to such a conclusion, and taken the punishment to such extremes, I would think there must have been a pattern of insolence from her.

In that case, yes, I would ask the father to look at how he has parented this child that she has turned out to be so disrespectful that he would resort to such an extreme show of power, and then videotaping it and posting it on the internet for the world to see.

[Andara Bledin]

Really parents- if the worst thing your teen daughter does is rant to her online friends about her chores, consider yourselves blessed. There's a lot of parents with truly out of control kids who would love to trade places with you.

This wasn't just that she went online to rant to her peers.

This was that she'd been grounded for ranting online to her peers quite recently, and within months of getting back online, she's doing the exact same thing she did last time as if it never happened except that this time, she's actively trying to hide it from her parents because she knows she's not supposed to be doing it because she was specifically told not to do it.

Why did he choose to shoot the laptop? Because that's what he told her would happen if she did this again. She had prior warning of the consequences of her actions, and he followed through to let her know that when he says he's going to do something, that's what he's going to do.

The type of relationship does matter.

This.

With a peer, you explain your position and you trust that they are mature enough to understand and either agree or argue their side in a reasonable manner and you reach a consensus or compromise that works as best it can to satisfy the both of you.

Children can sometimes be mature enough to do the same, but more often than not lack the information and experience to properly understand the full repercussions of the things they choose to do.

This girl obviously felt that there would be no repercussions for her actions, so he gave her a far more tangible one to help her steer clear of doing something that had the power to negatively affect the entire family's lives.

^-.-^

[Greenday]

That's not rational at all.

Seriously, explain that irrationality of it.

And yes, it would be a drastically different situation if it was some woman's husband or friend or whatever. They are peers. The type of relationship does matter.

[Amanita]

Yeah, it really bothers me that everyone is hailing the dad as some sort of hero.
If a boss, husband, or friend did the same thing because the same person said negative things about them on the 'net, I'm sure reactions would be different.
About the sexism thing, I would be just as disgusted if mom had been the one to pull a gun out. That's not rational at all. When a spouse destroys your property, it's labelled as abusive behavior. So why is it cool to do that to a teenager? An authority figure breaking things like that sends the message "I could do this to you too!". Or at the very least, it creates needless resentment.

And I don't agree with automatically discounting what the daughter had to say, because she's young. Sometimes parents really DO pile too much on a kid's plate for whatever reason. The coffee bit got to me- are her parents too damn lazy to make/get their own coffee? Asking a child to make reasonable contributions to the house is one thing, using them like a live-in nanny or butler is another.

Really parents- if the worst thing your teen daughter does is rant to her online friends about her chores, consider yourselves blessed. There's a lot of parents with truly out of control kids who would love to trade places with you.