"Rich" kid kills 4, gets probation.

[Jester]

Are you using laws meant for adults and trying to apply them to minors? Really?

When the minor in question is 16, stole beer, intentionally got drunk, knew he'd be driving and did it anyway, and tried to flee the scene? I'd say that he knew what the hell he was doing.

And apparently you are forgetting that for more serious crimes, minors can and sometimes are charged and tried as adults. Minors younger than 16 have been treated as adults in the legal system before; that is not new.

And when someone's willful actions lead to multiple people being killed and multiple people being injured, even if that was not that person's intention, they can and often are charged with and tried for those crimes, and may even go to prison for them. This also is not new.

In this thread's case, it's an accident.

Accident in the sense that this was not the kid's intention.

However, people can be and are charged with crimes when something they do results in damage, injury or death, even if that was not their intention. That is the difference between murder and manslaughter. And there are many states that have vehicular manslaughter and DUI manslaughter on their books. No one gets drunk and seeks to kill other people, but it happens, and society has decided that it is no longer willing to classify such incidents as purely accidental. The perpetrator made the decision to drink and drive. Even if the final decision was while they were impaired, at some point in the chain of events they could have decided to take a different path, and they didn't. When you willfully drink to excess, you are usually held responsible for whatever actions you commit while impaired. No one forced this kid to drink, and his history shows us that this was not a one time deal.

You can call it an accident. And since it was not intended to happen, technically it was. But it was a completely preventable accident. The things that kid did and the decisions he made that day put that chain of events into action. The blame must rest squarely on his shoulders.

I agree with you that he should not be charged with first degree murder, as that implies premeditation to kill, which may be the only thing he is innocent of. But there is no way you can tell me that he was not guilty of manslaughter. And manslaughter, the act of doing things that end up with the death of others, is a crime.

An accident would have been if he had been driving along, and swerved to avoid hitting something in the road, lost control of his vehicle, and killed the people that way. A regrettable, horrible accident with no blame on the driver. This wasn't an accident. This was preventable death, and the blame is his.

[Kheldarson]

I've never heard of anyone in any state being charged with first degree murder for hitting someone while drunk.

Caught drunk driving? Misdemeanor DUI
Kill/hurt someone while driving drunk? Felony DUI

The latter involves jail time while the former doesn't. I don't see how you could ever convict someone of first degree murder if there was no intent to kill someone. I mean, isn't that the definition of first degree murder? Planned out intent to kill someone?

It doesn't matter if it's first degree murder. It's called a discretionary waiver, or prosecutorial discretion, for a reason. There's also a judicial waiver. But in both cases, a member of the court deems that the crime is so severe that it should be tried in criminal court.

In Texas, the prosecution can submit a waiver for minors 14 and up. So they could try and sentence him as an adult. Which they should have since he KILLED four people and seriously injured two.

[Greenday]

Well there is this 16 year old in Chicago, who not only was charged but convicted of first degree murder. He is serving 25 years, and that was taking into account that the guy had NEVER been in trouble with the law before, had an A average in school and was QB of the local high school.

http://beforeitsnews.com/the-law/201...n-2445654.html

This one from Colorado. She got 33 years.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...-near-longmont

The first case is apples to oranges. In this thread's case, it's an accident. In your example, it's someone who got pulled over and led police on a police chase. He got exactly the same thing anyone else running from the cops would have gotten.

As for the second, she wasn't even charged with it and she got 33 years because she was already on probation when this happened.

[Gravekeeper]

Well there is this 16 year old in Chicago, who not only was charged but convicted of first degree murder. He is serving 25 years, and that was taking into account that the guy had NEVER been in trouble with the law before, had an A average in school and was QB of the local high school.

Don't think much of that matters with the spree the guy went on, cripes. Though the first degree charge is stemming from a State law.

As for the second one, the stand out part of that for me is that she tried to swim away. >.>

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?id=9191449

That one is rather baffling. Mom is an alcoholic, had 7-8 shots of vodka and popped up on pills.....but neither the husband nor the adult daughter who likewise entrusted her infant son in the vehicle noticed anything off with her before she got behind the wheel?

[Gravekeeper]

No thanks. I'm not interested in "mob justice."

I'm not endorsing it, I'm just saying business isn't good so to speak. Dad giving him a company truck of all things is the second stupidest thing in this whole scenario. As its going to drag the business under along with everything else.

Though I'm curious as to how rich his parent's actually are and whether or not their raising him in a such a manner is even really justified by their assets. When you think mega rich you don't generally think "owns a sheet metal company". That would kind of be the ultimate karmic irony to this entire case if the lawsuits end up causing them to be unable to afford the half million a year rehab spa. Sending the kid to jail anyhow.

[Titi]

I've never heard of anyone in any state being charged with first degree murder for hitting someone while drunk.

Well there is this 16 year old in Chicago, who not only was charged but convicted of first degree murder. He is serving 25 years, and that was taking into account that the guy had NEVER been in trouble with the law before, had an A average in school and was QB of the local high school.

http://beforeitsnews.com/the-law/201...n-2445654.html

This one from Colorado. She got 33 years.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...-near-longmont


Most now are charged with second degree murder, because you do not have to prove intent.

http://www.independent.com/news/2013...harged-murder/

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?id=9191449

http://billingsgazette.com/news/stat...7199e55bf.html

[Andara Bledin]

No thanks. I'm not interested in "mob justice."

[Gravekeeper]

Just a nitpick, but the vehicle wasn't stolen. His dad let him take it. I see dad losing a lot of money and his business over that.

You should check out the Google reviews for his business. The company website is still down as well. >.>

[Gravekeeper]

One thing that bothers me is the "no remorse" aspect. Specifically: how does anyone KNOW? Some people don't show certain types of feeling well no matter how strong, and of course *showing* remorse is often just that: a show, a sham, devoid of substance.

Well, he showed none in court and that's the one place you'd want to show it even if it was a sham. So does he have no remorse or is his head so far up his ass he doesn't think he shouldn't even fake it for court?

The media has dug into that past case as well, turns out she actually wanted rehab there too.

In the previous case of note, she sentenced a black 14 year old to 10 years for killing someone with a punch. The kid punched a 40 year old man, who subsequently banged his head on the curve when he fell over leading to fatal injuries. That kid also showed no remorse.

Turns out in that case the judge likewise tried to push a special rehab center, but no place would take the kid ( and I would assume the parents couldn't afford it ) so she ended up sentencing him to 10 years in prison instead.

In other words, if this kid's parents couldn't afford to enroll him in a special rehab center, she would have shrugged and sent him to prison for 10-20 years instead. What the fuck? The victim's family in the previous case was likewise shocked and enraged at the judge trying to push a cushy out of state rehab center.

Apparently, the Judge doesn't like the rehabilitation programs her own state offers in the juvenile system. So she tries to ship kids to fancy out of state centres ( In the previous case she wanted to send him to a special centre in Arizona ) but when that failed she put him away for 10 years instead.

[Andara Bledin]

Don't know about Texas, but in some jurisdictions "first degree murder" includes ANY death that results from the commission of a felony. Driving a stolen vehicle, DUI with prior alcohol-related offenses - depending on the jurisdiction, he could technically meet the definition of first degree murder.

Just a nitpick, but the vehicle wasn't stolen. His dad let him take it. I see dad losing a lot of money and his business over that.

[Greenday]

One thing that bothers me is the "no remorse" aspect. Specifically: how does anyone KNOW? Some people don't show certain types of feeling well no matter how strong, and of course *showing* remorse is often just that: a show, a sham, devoid of substance.

For all we know, he could just be medicated to the gills right now and that's why he's not showing emotions. (To clarify, with anti-depressants)

[HYHYBT]

One thing that bothers me is the "no remorse" aspect. Specifically: how does anyone KNOW? Some people don't show certain types of feeling well no matter how strong, and of course *showing* remorse is often just that: a show, a sham, devoid of substance.

[Greenday]

Don't know about Texas, but in some jurisdictions "first degree murder" includes ANY death that results from the commission of a felony. Driving a stolen vehicle, DUI with prior alcohol-related offenses - depending on the jurisdiction, he could technically meet the definition of first degree murder.

I've never heard of anyone in any state being charged with first degree murder for hitting someone while drunk.

Caught drunk driving? Misdemeanor DUI
Kill/hurt someone while driving drunk? Felony DUI

The latter involves jail time while the former doesn't. I don't see how you could ever convict someone of first degree murder if there was no intent to kill someone. I mean, isn't that the definition of first degree murder? Planned out intent to kill someone?

[wolfie]

Don't know about Texas, but in some jurisdictions "first degree murder" includes ANY death that results from the commission of a felony. Driving a stolen vehicle, DUI with prior alcohol-related offenses - depending on the jurisdiction, he could technically meet the definition of first degree murder.

[Greenday]

Isn't 16 around the age where most attorneys begin to have discretion as to whether or not a youth is adult enough to understand their crimes fully? And I'd say he understood his crime, since he was, you know, fleeing the scene.

Sure, if you are committing first degree murder.