People who have no idea what racism really is....

[smileyeagle1021]

For your friends, do you introduce them as "This is Black guy Alex! He Black! The other guy is Richard! He's the Asian! Finally there is Randal, he's is the Russsian!"

No, but I might describe a friend.
Me: hey, do you know Ben?
Other person: Ben... umm, Ben, who's Ben?
Me: He's tall, black, has short hair, used to be my roommate, you should have met him.
Other person: Oh, yeah, I remember Ben.

Now, how is that racist... I have had many roommates, a few who were tall with short hair... bringing in skin color is just one of many traits we can use to describe someone... yeah I could have said "tall, has short black hair, green eyes, slightly bucked teeth, and slightly larger than average feet." But why say that much detail to differentiate him when I know that the person who I'm talking to knows I've only had one tall, black, with short haired roommate?

[jackfaire]

But if you have to dance around the point of that part of a description, it makes a bigger deal about skin colour than it actually is. IFor example if describing a person if I said :

Oh the tall, muscular guy with brown hair and brown eyes.
.

I am not saying someone should dance around the fact personally I am saying the fact isn't very descriptive visual cues such as skin color, hair color, eye color typically have me looking at the person scratching my head until they give me unique features of the person, personality traits, how they walk, accent etc so many things that actually tell me about the person.

If someone telling you they are talking about the tall black guy with brown hair and brown eyes fills you in on who they are talking about cool.

To me that is the equivilant of asking me if i remmber that movie with that one guy.

Very few situations would I think to put the visual part first those would come last after all the unique features were used up and they still didn't know who I am talking about.

[Plaidman]

how does it do more harm?


Oh the tall, muscular guy with brown hair and brown eyes?

If person doesn't know, then add more

"He always jokes about how his wife beats him every night when he doesn't come home with the lottery?"

"He drives the Red mercedes?"

etc etc.

We aren't colorblind. Agreed. But when you label person solely by race as the only way to describe them is just stupid.

For your friends, do you introduce them as "This is Black guy Alex! He Black! The other guy is Richard! He's the Asian! Finally there is Randal, he's is the Russsian!"

[muses_nightmare]

But if you have to dance around the point of that part of a description, it makes a bigger deal about skin colour than it actually is. I think the point a lot of people are trying to make is that it is in fact a distinguishing characteristic, and when describing someone it can and does comeup. We aren't colourblind , nor should we be. We shouldn't treat people differently because of their colour, but ignoring it also does more harm than good.

For example if describing a person if I said :

Oh the tall, muscular guy with brown hair and brown eyes.

That could be anyone, is that a good description? Does this person care what race they are? Will they be offended if you describe them as such?

Like "Aw someone stole your car? He must have been Chinese!" That's racist.

Yeah well of course it is, I never said it wasn't.

[jackfaire]

To me physical appearance is important because its how i tell people apart.

"hey, you know that guy who's really nice, and he's funny, and he's smart, but he's also a little full of himself?"

That's about six hundred different people I know.

"Hey, you know that guy who's black, tall, muscular, and has those two big ass nose rings?"

Oh yeah that guy!

But if he were white would you have said, "Hey, you know that guy whose white, tall, muscular, and has those two big ass nose rings?"

Unless you know a lot of tall, muscular guys with two big ass nose rings which is pretty specific I don't see how his skin color adds to the description.

No I am not saying it is racist I think it is more indicative of an "us" or "them" mentality. One that I don't really have personally so I don't tend to describe people by their ancestry. I go for unique descriptors to them skin color is no more a unique descriptor than eye color or hair color also neither of which I use unless I have described him as "the guy with the gorgeous eyes" in the past.

Tall is also subjective and only useful if the person your speaking with knows you. If your a person that is 6'3 then tall may mean 7'. I have a friend that is 5'2 and would describe me as tall, I am 5'7, but 6' friends that would describe me as short.

[Red Panda]

Mentioning race when it has nothing to do with anything makes a point that race is an important factor even if it isn't. You can describe a person without giving their race.

Which is a better description

A: The guy with a three foot afro, five gold teeth, aviator sunglasses, weighs about 400 pounds always wears sweat pants and has a parrot on his shoulder

or

B: The black guy.


Besides, physical description is rarely important on CS at least. How does writing

"This black guy came in and tried to scam me" make a better story then "This guy came in and tried to scam me" other then reaffirming that those crazy blacks are always trying to scam people.

[DrFaroohk]

Being overly sensitive does nothing.

Except, as I said, actually empower those who actually are racist.

To me physical appearance is important because its how i tell people apart.

"hey, you know that guy who's really nice, and he's funny, and he's smart, but he's also a little full of himself?"

That's about six hundred different people I know.

"Hey, you know that guy who's black, tall, muscular, and has those two big ass nose rings?"

Oh yeah that guy!


I still say its only racism if its really, really negative. Just mentioning a person's race isn't racist. Discriminating is racist. Like "Aw someone stole your car? He must have been Chinese!" That's racist.

Just because someone writes something down doesn't make it true, anyway. I know a hundred people who would jump on me and write down "That's racist!" Why? Because YOU said it is? You can say whatever the fuck you want, it's still not racist. And back to my previous argument, the only person, the ONLY FUCKING PERSON who really knows if I'm being racist is ME. Everyone else can suck it.

An example to prove this point: Let's say you happen across me hanging some brown skinned dude from a tree. You might think "OMG He's racist he's lynching that guy!" That's what you assume, because you saw a classic example of racism.

What you didn't know, and can't know because you can't read my mind, is that he just recently stole my wallet and ran up a ginormous bill on my credit card, and when I caught up to him, he refused to pay up. It has nothing to do with his race.

[muses_nightmare]

Skin color on a person isn't vital.

Despite what you may think, it is a pretty obvious detail about someone's appearance. Sometimes people like to describe the people they're talking about, omitting skin colour intentionally is stupid, especially if you're trying to write something interesting. It comes up. That being said, when I'm talking about my friends to people who don't know them I will occasionally mention race if it comes up (like when I say English isn't their first language and the person I'm talking to asks what language is their first), doesn't make me racist.

Separating people by skin colour isn't right and is racism, but simply describing someone and including their skin colour is not racist in the slightest. It is one of their distinguishing characteristics, just like if I'm describing someone with red hair or what have you. It's an observation, and for the most part it's not an important part of the story, just an added detail. Being overly sensitive does nothing.

[Boozy]

Mark my words, I never said it was racism, just implied racism if all you do is talk about this race over all other races.

I know exactly what you mean.

Discussing an issue like this is difficult without specific examples. Mentioning race is not always racist, but when it is racism, you know it is. There's just something about the mention of race that seems odd sometimes, you know?

More specifically, there have been times when I've seen race get mentioned in situations that don't warrant it in any way, and coming from a person who has never made any effort to add description to their writing or set the scene in any way.

When someone says "It was a beautiful sunny day and I was polishing the windows at the front of the store when I see a tall black man get out of his Honda Civic and walk towards the door"...that's clearly not racism. That's descriptive writing. They're describing the weather, their activity, the guy's car -- and his race.

What has always struck me as racist is the mention of race when no other decription is offered, and the behaviour of the minority in question is unpleasant.

[Plaidman]

It isn't racism. It just no real point to it when it comes to stories online, or even in person. Why is their skin color a important part?

Your friend Moe?

"My pal Moe is fuuuuuuunny! He'd make ya cough milk out of your nose. Just don't spit any on him, he's like ten feet talk and could crush ya".


See? Your exact description, just no skin color.

Skin color on a person isn't vital.

You want to get away with racism and all that? One minor stepping stone is to take away the fucking skin color, and treat a a person like a person.

Hell, even the size isn't that important ether! Or their clothes.

Their personality is what makes a person a person, not their size, not there clothes, not their family (though that may help form their personality), nothing on the outside should ever be used to describe someone.

I hate that with a passion. Everyone describes people by what they look like rather then what they are. It's what maikes the world so damn divided, because you put their preconvived feelings ahead.

People call me crosseyed. Thus I must be retarded.

I don't wear fancy clothes, thus I must be poor.

I don't cut my hair often, thus I must be a hippy.


Yeah, it may not be racism, but if you put that skin color, you still putting someone subconensously into a different catogry, for better or for worst on efveryone. It's subconcesious, not a choice.

Putting someone's skin color is not a detail. It's not important, (Unless your trying to describe somone to a police that this guy did this)

But introducing your friends? I've never once told any of my friends that this person is this skin color. I tell people what they did or who they are. People see their skin color when they meet in person eventally.

People's outsides looks and physically body is nothing. All that counts is the inside.

[DrFaroohk]

Mark my words, I never said it was racism, just implied racism if all you do is talk about this race over all other races.

I don't see the point in mention race at all. It does nothing when it comes to these stories, as their race has very little to nothing to do with how they act.

Maybe it doesn't have anything to do with the story, but is it really necessary to omit it just because someone might possibly be slightly offended at the mention of awful words like "black guy" or "mexican"?

and of course we're straying from the main point, which was that it's just plain not racism. Maybe I don't need to mention that this dude at work I talk to sometimes is a big fucking black dude, which he is, but I'm not like "ewwww a black guy" it's just "Hey, this is moe, and he's extremely large, he's funny, and yeah, he's black."

And there's nothing at all wrong with that. In fact, in telling a story and saying "man, this puerto rican dude came in and was a total dick!", when someone gets all upset and cries racism, that person is the one giving the word the label and with it the power to hurt people's feelings and be racist. The word was fine until the so-called anti-racist dude made it racist.

[jackfaire]

Race and sex are usually the first things we notice about people when we first interact with them. I

Not me I think honestly colors, hair, eyes, and skin are the last things I notice.

[Plaidman]

Mark my words, I never said it was racism, just implied racism if all you do is talk about this race over all other races.

I don't see the point in mention race at all. It does nothing when it comes to these stories, as their race has very little to nothing to do with how they act.

[guywithashovel]

if you again, want to rant on about how your just describing it, then explain why you never explain what else they look like. What color are there eyes? What the hairstyle? What clothes do they wear? How age are they? Do they have wrinkles? Zits? Beards? No Beards? Are they growing boobs? Facial Scars? People don't add those, because they aren't important to the story, just like a person's race.

In the past when I used to post SC stories on CS (when I still worked retail), I would sometimes give indications of what the customers looked like aside from race or gender. I would often give some indication of the person's age, but that shouldn't be taken as a prejudice against any certain age group.

Race and sex are usually the first things we notice about people when we first interact with them. I don't see why it's often taken as a tacit admission of racism to mention that an SC was Mexican, black or anything else.

[Fryk]

Perhaps that wasn't the best way of phrasing it, I guess I should use the more technical term Anglo-Saxon descent.

So they're WASPS. Do we still call them that?