People who have no idea what racism really is....

[Rebel]

I will admit that when I'm reading a story, any story, and no-one describes what the character looks like, I immediately picture them as being Caucasian with blue eyes and blonde or brown hair.
Why?
Because that's what everyone in my family looks like.

Peoples world views are formed by those that are closest to them when they're growing up. I didn't even see anyone with dark skin until I was a lot older, and that was my aunty Chandra. And this wasn't because my family was racist and were trying to keep us separate from anyone different, it just happened that the street we lived on was predominantly white, and as a young child, your home and your street is all you know. As I grew and went to school, my world view grew, but that doesn't cancel out your first impressions as a child.

When I write stories, I will write descriptions of the people involved. Saying that the person was Asian is just as valid a description as saying that the person was really tall, really short, fat, thin, etc. It's different from what my default setting is, or is unusual for the location where the incident occurred. It allows people to envision the story in it's original context. Unless I'm using racial slurs, I don't agree that it's racist.

To say that I'm racist for describing a persons race or skin colour in a story, is like calling me a Xenoglossophobic for thinking and writing in English.

[Plaidman]

When describing a suspect in a crime it is rather important to note if they're black, white, Asian, Latin American, Middle Eastern, etc.

When I call the police about a suspicious person they ask "black, white, or Latino". Its a description and one of the more noticable charateristics.

We wer talking about people who just have to post the person's race when it comes to posting stories, when it has nothing to do with the story.


if you again, want to rant on about how your just describing it, then explain why you never explain what else they look like. What color are there eyes? What the hairstyle? What clothes do they wear? How age are they? Do they have wrinkles? Zits? Beards? No Beards? Are they growing boobs? Facial Scars? People don't add those, because they aren't important to the story, just like a person's race.

[smileyeagle1021]

So almost everyone in your lobby is from the Church of England?

Did you ask them if they want tea and cake or death?

Perhaps that wasn't the best way of phrasing it, I guess I should use the more technical term Anglo-Saxon descent.

[jackfaire]

Then, a PC enthusiast would reply with something like "I agree that he was an SC, but what does his race have to do with it? It sounds like you may have prejudged him before the encounter even happened."

That's another thing. If I'm describing a bad encounter with someone, and I happen to mention the fact that the person is black, female, Asian or whatever, it's a description, not a tacit admission of racism.

See online it's harder to tell but I know closeted racist people who if I say, "God the neighbor won't leave me alone" will respond with a sneer, "Was it the Mexican".

In real life this is one of the best indicators of someone's predjudice unfortunatly online it's harder to tell if it is just a descriptor like, "This blue eyed guy was bothering me" or "this SC with red fingernails."

I don't assume the person was white if someone doesn't mention their race no more than I assume gender. I only picture the person using details supplied me everything else is left blank.

[draggar]

Well according to some above, it just should be implied that they are, because they only say different race when its different and not when it's used to describe everyday stuff. Since most papers have many articles on people of different race, and typically black people then they just doing what people above do. Not describe white because its implied its white, and to a paper, it should be implied it's black because they write alot of crime stories of black people.

When describing a suspect in a crime it is rather important to note if they're black, white, Asian, Latin American, Middle Eastern, etc.

When I call the police about a suspicious person they ask "black, white, or Latino". Its a description and one of the more noticable charateristics.

[Plaidman]

Another issue is that some are taking this to an extreme. When a local paper posts an article about a crime on their website if the suspect is white or Latin American, they'll say it. They rarely mention if the suspect is black - even if their picture is in the article.

Well according to some above, it just should be implied that they are, because they only say different race when its different and not when it's used to describe everyday stuff. Since most papers have many articles on people of different race, and typically black people then they just doing what people above do. Not describe white because its implied its white, and to a paper, it should be implied it's black because they write alot of crime stories of black people.

[draggar]

Before posting I decided to look upo the actual definition of "racism" and this is what I found:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism

–noun
1.a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

n.
1.The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

2.Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

racism definition

The belief that some races are inherently superior (physically, intellectually, or culturally) to others and therefore have a right to dominate them. In the United States, racism, particularly by whites against blacks, has created profound racial tension and conflict in virtually all aspects of American society. Until the breakthroughs achieved by the civil rights movement in the 1950s and 1960s, white domination over blacks was institutionalized and supported in all branches and levels of government, by denying blacks their civil rights and opportunities to participate in political, economic, and social communities.

So "racism" itself means something along the lines of acting negatively towards someone based on the color of their skin. So it's not racist if I act positively?

If I find Asian women more attractive than black women - then this is racist towars black women but not Asian women (considering "less attractive" could be considered a negative though)? Because of this, I would be less likely to date a black woman (now my actions are based on the color of their skin, too!). Technically, according to the definition that is racism.

Sounds a bit one sided to me.

Another issue is that some are taking this to an extreme. When a local paper posts an article about a crime on their website if the suspect is white or Latin American, they'll say it. They rarely mention if the suspect is black - even if their picture is in the article.

[Fryk]

... in my lobby at the hotel right now is 12 people, only one is not of Anglican decent, and that's an employee...

So almost everyone in your lobby is from the Church of England?

Did you ask them if they want tea and cake or death?

[smileyeagle1021]

I've noticed that people will mention the race of someone who is not of their own race, and it doesn't just apply to "white" people. I don't think it's intentional, nor that it is racist.
-snip-
And who you find physically attractive shouldn't have anything to do with whether you're racist or not.

I have noticed that too, and as to the idea of mentioning it because it is the non-default, I can completely understand that... in my lobby at the hotel right now is 12 people, only one is not of Anglican decent, and that's an employee... if a black/mexican/asian/whatever person comes in out of nowhere and bitches about a pothole in the parking lot, yeah, the fact that he is different than everyone else in the lobby will stand out and it has nothing to do with race or racism, just being different. Likewise, if everyone in the lobby is between 5'4 and 5'9 and all the sudden someone who is 6'2 comes in, yeah, I'm going to notice that they are one tall ass mofo. Conversly, same height for all the guests in the lobby and someone who is only 5'1 comes in, the fact that they are shorter than everyone else will be noticable. I'd fully expect if my lobby had 12 people in it and they were all asain and a white guy came in and bitched that I'd notice.

As to the second part, about physical attraction. The people I find attractive and Southest Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Tai, Philipino, etc), Eastern European (Russian, Slavic, etc), Southern European (Spanish, Italian, Greek), and certain Latin guys. Black guys, Middle Eastern, Indian, and multiple other groups just don't do anything for me. That in no way means I think they are inferior or wouldn't trust them to do just as good of a job as anyone in the groups I find physically attractive, or wouldn't be willing to be friends with them assuming we had common interests... I just wouldn't want to see them naked...

[Jack]

sorry to pick on ya Plaid but aren't you in a creative writing class?

Use descriptive writing to make your readers feel your pain.

they actually have the reasons for doing it posted there-it's to bring people closer to the actual experience.

for example:
the horse ran through the meadow and sniffed some flowers.

vs

The golden-maned horse thundered through the lush green meadow and then it stopped. It bent its neck to the green grass and sniffed the sweet smell of the colourful flowers.

Late quote, but this exactly. On CS we write stories, not affidavits. We don't need to stick entirely to bare facts, which, after all, would make the whole thing a lot less interesting.

[muses_nightmare]

You say I should just assume when he doesn't mention race that it must be white, but you go on to say you need details? That is just really, well, not being truthful. You need details when it isn't a white person. That may not be racist, but is sure can seem like a racist act.

I've noticed that people will mention the race of someone who is not of their own race, and it doesn't just apply to "white" people. I don't think it's intentional, nor that it is racist. Not everything that has to to with mentioning race is racist like you seem to be assuming. If someone adds a detail like skin colour in, but is not focusing the story on said detail why does it matter? Why are you putting more importance than the original person did?

And to the OP:

I honestly can't tell the difference between "brown" people.

I have this problem with Asian people, with the exception of Filipinos (Though honestly I've mistake some of them for First Nations). I don't think that's racist.

And who you find physically attractive shouldn't have anything to do with whether you're racist or not.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

I used that because he feels the need to write that this black person did X. He cannot just say Person did this. He must add their race. But not write white. You say I should just assume when he doesn't mention race that it must be white, but you go on to say you need details? That is just really, well, not being truthful. You need details when it isn't a white person. That may not be racist, but is sure can seem like a racist act.

A few corrections for you:

1) wants to I think would fit better.
2) As I said, if white is taken as part of the standard of which we or at least he operates, to not specify is to default to that standard. Therefore, not specifying is exactly the same as actually saying "white". The same goes for tall/short/normal in that you only specify the comparatively anomalous situations because 'normal' is the standard. Therefore, I'm being truthful in that I want the details, it's just that because he doesn't have to say white for me to get the detail of white, he leaves it out in the same way as he would leave out normal. I'm getting the details, we're both saving a little time, everyone wins.
3) For people who are white and mostly interact with white people, their mental image of 'human' is probably white unless otherwise specified. This goes the same for every other race as well.

[Plaidman]

I used that because he feels the need to write that this black person did X. He cannot just say Person did this. He must add their race. But not write white. You say I should just assume when he doesn't mention race that it must be white, but you go on to say you need details? That is just really, well, not being truthful. You need details when it isn't a white person. That may not be racist, but is sure can seem like a racist act.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Seriously, did you even read that quote you posted of Dr F? He says there aren't many black people where he lives, but nowhere does he say anything about all the criminals being black. That he posted a FICTIONAL EXAMPLE as a juxtaposition between not mentioning race and mentioning race (we seem to be using black for the purposes of this thread) IS FICTIONAL, how hard is that to understand?

Oh and remember your example, about helping a guy getting mugged. No sane person blames someone who you determined to be the one getting mugged to actually be a secret mugger anymore than someone being polite to me secretly being an asshole. Thing is, the people both of us are talking about aren't sane, that's why they say what they say and do what they do.

Again, why should I be responsible for their stupid, jackass conclusions?

[Plaidman]

Now you're really putting words into Dr F's mouth. Nowhere did he say that only blacks commit crimes in his area, that was your assumption based on practically nothing.
.

Really?

Or 3: I live in an area with very few black people. I don't mention white people because its a given that the person I saw was white. It'd be like saying "This human being with two eyes, two lips, a nose, hair, two ears, two arms, and two legs came in..."

But if it was "This three armed man came in and...." because that's very uncommon and it helps to flesh out the story some.

Similar to the example above, its the difference between "this human came in and was mean to me."

or

"So this black dude comes in the other day - big motherfucker, too - and starts swearing up and down that we were out of Newports - and man was he pissed - tells me he's going to jump over the counter and shank me if I don't get on the phone to the manage right now and let him know what's up."

He states that there are only a few black people, but he notices that they are all the ones causing crime, yet never posts about white people. Hm.

Further still I honestly couldn't give a crap whether or not you've encountered racist people, most people do (One of my uncles, one of my aunts, as well as others) but I'm not responsible for their thoughts or conclusions. If I were to say "I ran into this Buddhist guy the other day when I was out walking and he politely informed me that my keys were about to fall out of my pocket"* I'm NOT responsible for any fundie christian or what have you that decides to conclude that the man was an asshole despite his actions.

Why would I think he is an asshole for telling you your keys are out? A random guy doing a good act. The fact he was Buddist has no part in that. He could be a Satanist. He could eat childrens souls, and it wouldn't have change the fact he told your keys were about to fall out.