Men and Women Can't Be Friends

[Seifer]

I've seen this problem both ways. I've found men that I can be 100% friends with and not have to worry that they see me in a sexual way. I've also been around men who, probably due to loneliness, saw my wanting to be friends as some kind of sign that I wanted more (?) and that they should make passes at me. To those men I say this: Just because a woman wants to be your friend, doesn't mean she wants to have sex with you.

[powerboy]

I have a lot of female friends. Only a few I would sleep with if given the chance. Hey the wife said I could, since she trusts them. I can also get one pregnant, if her and I wanted . But for the rest, yes they are beautiful, but they are only friends.

[Kheldarson]

It sounds like 'Dave' is the one assuming that picking up the tab means sex is going to ensue, and should fucking inquire rather than sit there being all frustrated because tab picking up means sex to him and means something else entirely to 'you'.

That was kinda my point. Or the fact it could be vice versa.

Shit, my best friend picks up the tab all the time, and we sure as shit aren't going to be bumping uglies any time soon. She makes 5 times what I do and knows it, is all.

And that's part of why communication is important. She's your best friend so you guys talk all the time, correct? Means you've probably talked about your salaries and the fact she picks up the tab all the time. That's still part of defining what the relationship means between the two of you.

[Shangri-laschild]

But I think it's unfair to say that people are immature or somehow dysfunctional or whatever because they don't want unromantic opposite sex friends or feel they can't do it for whatever reason (as some people here have done). Remember, we're all different. We have different likes and dislikes. We all have different minds that work in different ways, too. Some people just have a hard time being just friends with members of the opposite sex without developing romantic feelings as well. I don't think that makes them silly, immature, or whatever negative label you want to put on them.

You're right that it is a person by person thing. The thing I dislike is the general idea on the other side that it's not possible for them to be friends at all or that it can never ever happen without one side being attracted to the other side. Honestly if someone doesn't think they can handle it, then not being in that situation rather than staying in it and moping or holding it against the other person is the much more mature thing to do. And even with my feelings as far as friendship being possible, there have been friendships for me even that I let go because of emotions making things painful and messy. Level of attraction and who is involved can definitely play a big role.

And as far as you mentioning the whole trouble not developing feelings thing, there have been guy friends that I've had who I had momentary or even long term feelings for. It happens. Usually for me in those cases, it didn't last long and was more of a mulling over if I was or not but it still happens.

[guywithashovel]

I think an important thing to remember is that everyone is different.

You may have a lot of opposite sex friends and even prefer them to friends of the same sex, and that's fine. But I think it's unfair to say that people are immature or somehow dysfunctional or whatever because they don't want unromantic opposite sex friends or feel they can't do it for whatever reason (as some people here have done). Remember, we're all different. We have different likes and dislikes. We all have different minds that work in different ways, too. Some people just have a hard time being just friends with members of the opposite sex without developing romantic feelings as well. I don't think that makes them silly, immature, or whatever negative label you want to put on them.

Think about it. We've had threads where people have complained about being labled as immature, dysfunctional, or bad because they didn't have a desire to get married, have children, or do other various things that other people do, and most people on this board sympathize with those people. I'm sure some critical thinking enthusiasts could draw distinctions with this analogy, but for the most part, I think it stands.

[Shangri-laschild]

Being raised around the opposite sex for example ( opposite sex siblings ) seems to have this effect.

Not always. I was raised by a mom and a dad with a younger sister. My dad is shy and quiet and so most of my home interaction was completely female. Most of my friends, including my best friend, are guys and hanging out with a big enough group of girls still sometimes makes my brain want to go hide behind the couch.

You can be friendly but want to be more than friends.

You can also be friends despite wanting to be more. My roommate and I are in that situation. He knows where I stand and I've made it clear I don't feel that way. We're still friends and enjoy living together. I've been on the other end too where I still enjoyed being friends with someone after knowing that they weren't interested in me. And there have even been guys I was friends with and attracted to where the attraction and desire for more than friends died away. Hell, my best friend is a guy I dated about 7 years ago for 4 months. Neither of us is interested in anything more than friendship. I'm positive of that one. He was really nervous for a while there about accidentally making me think that he might want to get back together at any time and it took me a while to convince him that he didn't have to worry. He and I were both in complete agreement that we were no longer attracted to each other in that way. There's never been a problem with it since except for the people who meet us and seem to not believe that we are only friends (and that's before they hear about the past dating part even). It's actually a bit of a sore spot given how one of his girlfriends tried to get rid of me over it. I've been lucky since in that the girls after that were ok with it.

I'm not saying I think it's irrelevant to a friendship. The idea of the "friend zone" because both people are attracted to each other but one of them doesn't want to mess it up irritates me. Tension like that can mess up a friendship just as easily sometimes especially when both parties know. On the other hand, I also don't think that every single guy/girl friendship has at least one party that wants more. I also don't think it has to be something that ruins or lessens the friendship. If I'm attracted to someone I'm in a platonic friendship with, I'm still friends with them. I'm not pretending to be friends with them nor is my friendship less because of it. I don't like the idea that I shouldn't be friends with someone just because I might be attracted to them or that our friendship doesn't work

"Well, thanks for the beer, Dave. It was good seeing you. Also, we will not be fucking in the future. Have a good night!"

And now I'm going to be giggling all day as whenever I talk to someone, the idea of randomly saying that is going to pop into my head!

[Sleepwalker]

You meet with Dave regularly to get beers, and alternate getting the tab. This is an equal partnership with same apparent ideals on what the friendship entails, namely, drinking together. However, if you or Dave are the one constantly setting the time and picking up the tab, it's likely that whichever one of you wants something more out of the relationship than just a drinking buddy. Therefore, you're the instigator and need to start the conversation about what you'd like to increase the relationship to.

It sounds like 'Dave' is the one assuming that picking up the tab means sex is going to ensue, and should fucking inquire rather than sit there being all frustrated because tab picking up means sex to him and means something else entirely to 'you'.

Shit, my best friend picks up the tab all the time, and we sure as shit aren't going to be bumping uglies any time soon. She makes 5 times what I do and knows it, is all.

[Mytical]

Lets not forget, the best relationships are built around being friends first anyhow. So the men and women can not be friends is already wrong on that alone. Most of my friends are female (though a lot do not talk to me anymore ). and there is no desire on my part to be more then that.

[Kheldarson]

Dear lord, that would lead to the most awkward conversations.

Why would I tell someone I have no interest in screwing them if they've never communicated their interest in screwing me?

"Well, thanks for the beer, Dave. It was good seeing you. Also, we will not be fucking in the future. Have a good night!"

Can it not be assumed that two people do not want to sleep together UNLESS one says otherwise? After all, I've been friends and acquaintances with many people over the course of my life, and I haven't slept with the vast majority of them.

I never said that. What I said was that instigate means to start, so if one party is handling the majority of the "heavy work" then they need to start the convo on what they want.

You meet with Dave regularly to get beers, and alternate getting the tab. This is an equal partnership with same apparent ideals on what the friendship entails, namely, drinking together. However, if you or Dave are the one constantly setting the time and picking up the tab, it's likely that whichever one of you wants something more out of the relationship than just a drinking buddy. Therefore, you're the instigator and need to start the conversation about what you'd like to increase the relationship to.

[Andara Bledin]

Can it not be assumed that two people do not want to sleep together UNLESS one says otherwise?

This is essentially what I said.

It's the one that wants the relationship to go further that has a duty to speak up.

^-.-^

[Boozy]

No, it's not. Instigate means to start. So, whoever is really pursuing the relationship (i.e. the one handling more of the invitations, going out of the way to hang out, etc.) should probably be the one to open the conversation on how far they want said friendship to go.

Dear lord, that would lead to the most awkward conversations.

Why would I tell someone I have no interest in screwing them if they've never communicated their interest in screwing me?

"Well, thanks for the beer, Dave. It was good seeing you. Also, we will not be fucking in the future. Have a good night!"

Can it not be assumed that two people do not want to sleep together UNLESS one says otherwise? After all, I've been friends and acquaintances with many people over the course of my life, and I haven't slept with the vast majority of them.

[Andara Bledin]

You can be friendly but want to be more than friends.

Oh, absolutely!

However, if you really want to be more than friends with someone but never tell them so and then find out from some other source that they have no intention of ever being more than friends, don't get all worked up and start calling them names and accuse them of wrongdoing because they didn't read your mind

^-.-^.

[Greenday]

No because she quantified it with the person that wants more. Plus If the person is being friendly with you then it's a given they want to be friends since that is the relationship both you and the other person are actively seeking out but if the other person wants more and aren't actively seeking out more from you then it's not your fault for not knowing they wanted more.

You can be friendly but want to be more than friends.

[Sleepwalker]

No, it's not. Instigate means to start. So, whoever is really pursuing the relationship (i.e. the one handling more of the invitations, going out of the way to hang out, etc.) should probably be the one to open the conversation on how far they want said friendship to go.

Just... no.

[jackfaire]

So if one person assumes that the other person wants to be just friends when in reality the other person wants more, they fit your definition, do they not?

No because she quantified it with the person that wants more. Plus If the person is being friendly with you then it's a given they want to be friends since that is the relationship both you and the other person are actively seeking out but if the other person wants more and aren't actively seeking out more from you then it's not your fault for not knowing they wanted more.