Westboro hits close to home

[Ghel]

How does not having female priests make on unaccepting of equal rights? It's simply Church doctrine, and in no way does it say for members to treat women differently than men. As for clergy, what do you think nuns are, hmmm?

Nuns are the equivalent of monks, not priests. There are no female priests in the Catholic Church, or most other Christian churches. Performing Last Rights / Annointing of the Sick / Extreme Unction is not the same as leading a mass, performing a wedding, etc. Those who follow biblical teachings (such as Fred Phelps and his WBC) believe that women should be silent in church/temple and not allowed to hold a position of authority, particularly over men. This is just the beginning of how misogynist the Abrahamic religions are.

[Fryk]

What the hell does that have to do with anything?

Nuns are allowed to perform Extreme Unction.

But they can't do confession. And it has to do with the fact that they are not equal.

[fireheart17]

As of a couple weeks ago, the Episcopal Church now has two, New Hampshire and, I think, Los Angeles area. And, apparently, quite a few members and priests still complaining about the first one. But that doesn't mean either that the ones in Utah are any different than the Methodists Smiley already knows, or that they're not. I'm not even sure there *are* any.

Cheers.

Also, thought this might be of help to the OP.

http://www.patriotguard.org/

Basically a group of people who hate WBC, but provide a service to the soldiers by acting as a buffer/transport before/during/after funerals for soldiers. They're only there on invitation, they don't crash the funeral for the sake of it. Their aims and methods are purely non-violent.

[HYHYBT]

I recall there was a gay bishop in the US somewhere-can't remember which church though.

As of a couple weeks ago, the Episcopal Church now has two, New Hampshire and, I think, Los Angeles area. And, apparently, quite a few members and priests still complaining about the first one. But that doesn't mean either that the ones in Utah are any different than the Methodists Smiley already knows, or that they're not. I'm not even sure there *are* any.

[fireheart17]

IMHO, as far as Christianity goes, I know that there are some denominations who are more accepting of certain rights. IIRC, a few of the services I attended when I stayed over with my grandparents were led by female priests-bearing in mind this is Uniting Church of Australia.
I recall there was a gay bishop in the US somewhere-can't remember which church though.

In short, my point is, there are SOME denominations out there that are willing to make changes to show that Christianity can coexist in modern society.

I don't hate Christians in general-just those who use religion as an excuse for things.

[smileyeagle1021]

Some Mormans aren't nice to smileyeagle so that means all Christians are evil. More evil then the leader of Cobre Kai in Karate Kid.

By some you mean the majority (if exit polls are accurate as well as police records).
Red, I have to ask you, do you know fear?
Answer me honestly.
Do you walk down the street with your boyfriend wondering whether or not the group walking the other direction is going to beat you, potentially kill you?
Do you walk to your car hand clutched on your pepper spray praying someone hasn't camped out at your car to attack you?
Do you wake up wondering whether or not your car is going to be vandalized because of an equality bumper sticker?
Have you ever had a cross carved into your car?
Do you know the feeling of knowing if you are attacked that the DA will do whatever he can to avoid prosecuting?

There has not been a single hate crime committed in Utah that was NOT committed by a Christian, with the majority being of the Mormon variety. So far I have been blessed by fate to not have experienced more than verbal abuse and lost rights at the ballot box at the hands of the Christian right, but as I've told my mother (and she, the eternal optimist thinks I'm being optimistic) that the only way I will avoid being a statistic at the hands of a Christian is if I am lucky enough to move before that happens... her response was that she doubted I would be able to move before that time (and keep in mind, she is a Christian herself, she sees the church in a favorable light).

I'll make you a deal, if (more likely when) a Christian attacks me, you can comfort me by reminding me that Christianity doesn't inspire hatred, that my fears are misplaced, and that everything will be all right.

And for the record, some already know this, Mormonism did much more than "be mean".
Their missionaries LIED to me saying that what I am was wrong and disgusting but don't worry, you can be cured. All you have to do is be dunked in some magical water and pay us 10% of your income and pray daily and God will cure you of your affliction. I then spent two years fighting who I was, never getting anywhere, and the entire time being taught that it was obviously my fault for not praying enough. I came close to killing myself because of my failure in being able to 'cure' myself. Then to add insult to injury, my roommate discovered I was a member of an ex-gay support group, he told the Bishop, who told the Elders Quorum President who told the whole fucking Elders Quorum. Nearly overnight I became a social pariah, all my priesthood responsibilities were stripped from me (despite me not actually violating any church rules). Both of my roommates at the advice of the Bishop moved out without notice... so that they were not being influenced by someone as corrupted as me. I staid in a state of limbo for about a year. When I finally decided that I wouldn't be able to make it back in or "cure" myself, I requested that I be permitted to leave with dignity. No, they couldn't even allow that... they had to browbeat me about how had I just tried a little bit harder or a little bit longer I could have made it work. It took me three months to finally get them to remove my membership.
After that, I couldn't get out of my abusive relationship with Christianity, I went to the methodist church, which just as the mormon church, lied to me. They told me that I would be welcome with open arms, that all were welcome within the Methodist church. Well, come to find out, by welcomed with open arms they really meant "but we're still going to teach that you're a vile sinner inherently incompatible with the church" and not even allowing me a low level position in the church as a Sunday school aid (whether due to doctrine or the irrational belief that homosexuals are pedophiles, I will never find out).
I am nearly willing to wager my yearly vacation to San Francisco (something that I spend 51 weeks a year preparing for) that any person who goes through the same experience will end up with the EXACT same feelings I do towards Christianity.

I'd also like to point out, it would be a hell of a lot easier to soften my views on Christianity if people didn't insist on taking pot shots trivializing very major life events, thus fueling a justifiable resentment.

[Red Panda]

How so? To what are you refering to? And please be specific what you mean by Christianity.

Some Mormans aren't nice to smileyeagle so that means all Christians are evil. More evil then the leader of Cobre Kai in Karate Kid.

[Hobbs]

Lemme know when nuns can do Last Rites, and we'll talk about them being equal.

What the hell does that have to do with anything?

Nuns are allowed to perform Extreme Unction.

[Kaylyn]

Well, I called my sister a few hours ago to see how things went. Me, hubby, and friend were driving down south and met some of the Patriot Guard Riders (about 20) heading north this morning. I told sister this and she said there were hundreds, if not over a thousand, motorcycles there. The funeral was held at the First Baptist Church, and Westboro was supposed to be sequestered by the town's water tower. There was a giant American flag being held up by cranes near the tower. She said she didn't see evidence of a single protestor, so either they chickened out, got run off, or were just that well hidden. At the burial, motorcycles were covering half of the entire cemetery, and still no evidence of protestors.

[Fryk]

Lemme know when nuns can do Last Rites, and we'll talk about them being equal.

[Hobbs]

How does not having female priests make on unaccepting of equal rights? It's simply Church doctrine, and in no way does it say for members to treat women differently than men. As for clergy, what do you think nuns are, hmmm?

[Ghel]

Christianity as in those who self profess to being Christian...

This is a great definition, and IMO the only one that's meaningful. There's two reasons for this:

1. There is no authority that we can point to to tell us who is or isn't a Christian. Sure, for some denominations there is an authority to tell us who is a member of that denomination, but there isn't that authority for all denominations, and there's a lot of Christians that don't belong to any denomination. Also, I'm told that there are some people who don't believe in a god and don't believe that Jesus was divine, but agree with some of Jesus' teachings as reported by the Bible, and still call themselves Christians.

2. We can't know what is going on in the privacy of someone's mind, so we have to rely on what they tell us that they believe. If we wanted to, we might compare their statements to see if they're inconsistent, and thus find out if they're trying to deceive us, but I've found that one thing that Christians will generally be consistent on is their Christianity.

[smileyeagle1021]

How so? To what are you refering to? And please be specific what you mean by Christianity.

Christianity as in those who self profess to being Christian... and as of yet, the majority (as apparent in voting demographics) still beleive that homosexuals should be second class citizens in this nation. Many vocal Christians still call for the execution of homosexuals... outside of the United States it isn't just a vocal minority, in places like Uganda it is the vast majority that call for the execution of homosexuals. Many christian sects still do not recognize equality for women even (women are still not permitted to have positions of authority in either the Mormon or Catholic church as the largest examples, and I know certain synods of the Lutheran church do not allow women clergy).
Outside of religious communities there is very little discussion on whether or not homosexuals are good people equal to heterosexuals, yet within Christianity (and in fairness they aren't the only ones) the debate is still going on, and in many cases the side that views us as subhuman menaces is winning.
That does not mean that there are not Christians who are good people who are open and accepting... as a whole though, the religion has a lot of ground to cover before it can even be considered close to open and accepting.

[Hobbs]

There, fixed it for you
While Christianity has made huge progress over the last 50 years, to claim that they are up to date is giving the religion a LOT more credit than it is due.

How so? To what are you refering to? And please be specific what you mean by Christianity.

[smileyeagle1021]

Christianity, for the most part, has been dragged, kicking and screaming, into the 21st20th century. Phelps and his ilk are simply a throwback to earlier times.

There, fixed it for you
While Christianity has made huge progress over the last 50 years, to claim that they are up to date is giving the religion a LOT more credit than it is due.