Westboro hits close to home

[smileyeagle1021]

attempting to burn a house of worship is a hate crime, and i can almost guarantee that it's not christians trying to burn down these christian churches.

OK, so let me rephrase that to say hate crimes against homosexuals...
That, and considering the history of tension between Mormonism and Mainstream Christianity, it could very well be different sects of Christians trying to burn down the other sects churches. For that matter, arson is the type of crime that could very well be rebellious teenages doing what they know will piss off their parents the most.

[linguist]

There has not been a single hate crime committed in Utah that was NOT committed by a Christian, with the majority being of the Mormon variety.

sure about that?

according to humanrightsfirst.org:

In West Jordan, Utah, three arson attempts were reported on two churches in May and June 2008, targeting the St. Joseph the Worker Catholic Church and a Latter-day Saints church.

attempting to burn a house of worship is a hate crime, and i can almost guarantee that it's not christians trying to burn down these christian churches.

[smileyeagle1021]

Its a good thing you are the ultimate authority on Utah based hate crimes

No, sadly the 6 victims in the last two years (and the many more before them) are the ultimate authority, I merely keep up to date with the reports.

[Red Panda]

Its a good thing you are the ultimate authority on Utah based hate crimes

[smileyeagle1021]

So you're saying that there hasn't been a single one committed by a Muslim, Jew, or Atheist? Do you have stats to back that up?

CH

At least not in Utah... hell, some of our best allies in Utah are the Muslims, Jews, and Atheists who have also been discriminated against.

[Boozy]

Holy homophobic strawman fail, Batman!

You need to go back and read Red Panda's previous post in which she says:

Besides a few members of a group doing something bad does not make the group bad. There are gays who are HIV positive and have unprotected sex in order to try to spread the disease. Does this mean all gay men do this or support it? Of course not.

She's just defending her example as a valid comparison.

[jackfaire]

You do choose to try to give people aids

Then judging all Christians for being Christian is like judging all people with AIDS that are trying to give it to other people for being part of the group of people trying to give others AIDS.

[dendawg]

You do choose to try to give people aids

Holy homophobic strawman fail, Batman!

Seriously, do some research. Homosexual intercourse is not the only method of transmitting the HIV virus. My proof? Magic Johnson and Ryan White!

[crashhelmet]

That said, if we want to be more specific, in modern history, hate crimes against homosexuals have all been committed by Christians.

So you're saying that there hasn't been a single one committed by a Muslim, Jew, or Atheist? Do you have stats to back that up?

CH

[Red Panda]

Utah was a territory for nearly 50 years. It would have been a state sooner except for the strong anti Morman hatred and it wasn't until anti Morman laws were passed. The group you say committe all hate crimes was in fact the victim of hate crimes itself. Not to say they are justified by that, just pointing out that they didn't committe these crimes against themselves. Also, you know, indians. Its rare but indian on indian or indian on white people crimes do occure. Just pointing out how silly it is to believe only christians committe hate crimes

While I agree with your point the example you use doesn't work as people choose to be a memeber of religion not their sexuality.

You do choose to try to give people aids

[AdminAssistant]

* quote taken from the Official King James Bible, the most prevalently distributed translation of the Bible, also what many conservative christians (especially LDS) view to be the only valid translation.

They do realize that James I was gay, don't they? Cuz that's kinda funny.

[smileyeagle1021]

I am sure there has been at least one non-Christian who has committed a hate crime in the state, even if you have to go back to the days of Indians to find it.

Besides a few members of a group doing something bad does not make the group bad. There are gays who are HIV positive and have unprotected sex in order to try to spread the disease. Does this mean all gay men do this or support it? Of course not.

Arguing semantics, if the hate crime was committed back in the time of the Indians, then Utah wouldn't be a state therefor it would not have happened in Utah
That said, if we want to be more specific, in modern history, hate crimes against homosexuals have all been committed by Christians.

Also, a counterpoint to your argument. There is nothing about homosexuality that promotes or even condones the intentional spread of disease... there are several holy texts within Christianity that not only condone, not only promote, but MANDATE attacks against homosexuals (If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. is just one example)

* quote taken from the Official King James Bible, the most prevalently distributed translation of the Bible, also what many conservative christians (especially LDS) view to be the only valid translation.

[jackfaire]

Besides a few members of a group doing something bad does not make the group bad. There are gays who are HIV positive and have unprotected sex in order to try to spread the disease. Does this mean all gay men do this or support it? Of course not.

While I agree with your point the example you use doesn't work as people choose to be a memeber of religion not their sexuality.

[Red Panda]

Originally Posted by smileyeagle1021 View Post
There has not been a single hate crime committed in Utah that was NOT committed by a Christian, with the majority being of the Mormon variety.

I am sure there has been at least one non-Christian who has committed a hate crime in the state, even if you have to go back to the days of Indians to find it.

Besides a few members of a group doing something bad does not make the group bad. There are gays who are HIV positive and have unprotected sex in order to try to spread the disease. Does this mean all gay men do this or support it? Of course not.

[smileyeagle1021]

Oh, heavens no. But I learned a long time ago that a legal issue gets a lot farther than a moral one. Besides that, they're not displaying a very Christ-like attitude, are they?

Are you talking about homosexuals/allies?
Because if that's the case, I'll point out that in my life I have met ONE gay person who I doubt would meet Christ (the man, not necessarily the deity he has supposedly become) approval, I can't say the same about many of the Christians I have met. Someone's ability to be "Christ-like" (using your terms, a damned decent human being using other terms) has nothing to do with a persons orientation or religion.