Spanking children

[Zyanya]

we were under the impression that you felt that parents have a more valid opinion on the subject than non-parents.

I am, and they are.

However, part of being a parent is being responsible for the wellbeing of a child.

Those people are not parents. Breeders is a better term.

[Boozy]

Quoted for the simple reason that it is entirely correct however (due to my own fault) I hadn't seen the part where you refuted the point.

Oops - you're right, crazylegs. I should have said that Zyanya has addressed that point. I don't think it's necessarily been refuted either.

[crazylegs]

I think crazylegs introduced those stories of abuse for a specific reason; we were under the impression that you felt that parents have a more valid opinion on the subject than non-parents. crazylegs was simply pointing out that just because someone has children doesn't mean they have better judgment than those who don't.

You've refuted that point, I believe.

I don't see where anyone has actually compared spanking to child abuse; I only see where you have inferred that. crazylegs is actually for spanking.

Quoted for the simple reason that it is entirely correct however (due to my own fault) I hadn't seen the part where you refuted the point.

[Boozy]

I think crazylegs introduced those stories of abuse for a specific reason; we were under the impression that you felt that parents have a more valid opinion on the subject than non-parents. crazylegs was simply pointing out that just because someone has children doesn't mean they have better judgment than those who don't.

You've refuted that point, I believe.

I don't see where anyone has actually compared spanking to child abuse; I only see where you have inferred that. crazylegs is actually for spanking.

I'm one of the few who's against it, but even I don't think it's abusive. I don't plan to spank my children, but I'm not going to sit in judgment of others who do.

[Zyanya]

The point made by the child abuse cases is that some people think that this is okay as a form of punishment. Oh, yeah, they probably have other motives too, but there are people out there that think this abuse is an effective way to punish their kid.

The point made is that some people get hard-ons at the thought of banging a goat and think that sort of 'deviant' activity is okay.

It's their opinion, but as it is a wholly different action undertaken by sick, twisted individuals and not what we are discussing here, it's not relevant to the discussion.

Thus, child abuse should not be brought into a conversation about spanking anymore than bestiality, molestation, and incest should be brought into a conversation about gay marriage. This is the last time I will say this.

[the_std]

The point made by the child abuse cases is that some people think that this is okay as a form of punishment. Oh, yeah, they probably have other motives too, but there are people out there that think this abuse is an effective way to punish their kid.

That is their opinion, and it's relevant to the subject.

[Zyanya]

He's trying to point out that there are other opinions out there besides yours, and that other opinions besides yours or the ones you deem worthy are valid.

Sorry, but I find those who bring horrific child abuse cases into a thread about spanking about on the same level as those that bring bestiality into a thread about gay marriage.

[AFPheonix]

Even beyond being a shitty parent or not, there's still more than one way to go around things. Saying that all parents should spank is as wrong as saying no parents should spank.
Each parent should be able to do whatever is necessary and right and humane to enforce discipline. A simple spanking falls in those boundaries. So does not spanking and using another method to motivate the child. I know quite a few kids who are not motivated by a pain response, and the parent has to outwit their kid and think of another way.

[the_std]

Crazylegs has said, more than once, that he SUPPORTS spanking. He is in favour of spanking has a disciplinary method.

He's trying to point out that there are other opinions out there besides yours, and that other opinions besides yours or the ones you deem worthy are valid.

Just because someone's a shitty parent doesn't make them any less of a parent. Just like a shitty teacher is still a teacher.

[Zyanya]

Having removed children under a Police Protection Order due to physical abuse I am fully aware of the difference thank you.

Obviously not, as you insist on bringing them up together, such as bringing up horrific cases of abuse in a thread about spanking. And you tried to justify horrible abuse by comparing it to spanking with 'but the parents there thought it was okay'.

Learn the difference. Or get out of the debate until you do, cause if you think my smacking my son's hand is anywhere comparable to what these people did to their children I've got no time or respect for you.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I mean, yes, there are obviously cases of child abuse that are horrible, but I don't think any reasonable person would consider the rare spanking or even a slap in the mouth for backtalk as an abusive situation.

Especially since any parents who are going to beat their kids senseless will do so regardless of laws put in place about smacking. All those laws do is make sure that parents who are just going to deal out clips around the ear or smacks on the legs get penalised. Oh dear, my dad gave me a smack when I was seven cuz I pushed my little brother down the stairs... I should be traumatised for life!

[crazylegs]

And learn the difference between a spanking and a beating. It's on par with the difference between telling your kid 'no, you can't have a candy bar' and starving the kid to death.

Having removed children under a Police Protection Order due to physical abuse I am fully aware of the difference thank you.

[CancelMyService]

One thing that I've noticed every time a spanking debate pops up on any board I've ever been to: The anti-spanking crowd will almost always descend to the "any physical contact with a child is a horrible abuse on par with murder" argument that kind of undermines any valid points they may have. It's like a version of Godwin's Law, only with "OMG ABUSE" instead of Hitler.

The reason it bothers me is the mindset that any kind of spanking equals abuse is the main reason we have the "demon spawn kids threatening to call child services when parents threaten to discipline" attitude.

I mean, yes, there are obviously cases of child abuse that are horrible, but I don't think any reasonable person would consider the rare spanking or even a slap in the mouth for backtalk as an abusive situation.

[Zyanya]

You didn't seem to have a problem with the people who don't have kids yet are ok with spanking. Am I making that up?.

Yes. However, I am not going to argue with the people who don't have children and are okay with spanking because there is no reason for me to do so. They managed to pick the correct hypothesis, any experience they gain will only support it.

They were responsible for the child(ren), which is why they were able to act how they did, random laymen wouldn't have been able to abuse the authority and trust.

No, they were supposed to be responsible for the wellbeing of the children and failed in that responsibility. Just like a junkie who lets her kids run wild in the street isn't being responsible for them, even though she should be.

And learn the difference between a spanking and a beating. It's on par with the difference between telling your kid 'no, you can't have a candy bar' and starving the kid to death.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Also, everyone was at some point a child, so can state how their parents discliplined them, and whether or not it had any effect on them.

My parents smacked me and my brothers til we became of an age where losing privileges or being grounded had a better effect. The smacking was a very last resort, and only meted out when necessary; however, my brothers and I all had the greatest of respect for our parents; something which a lot of kids don't seem to have. It's that, I think, that's the difference between a well behaved child and a little demon spawn.