Execution delays

[BlaqueKatt]

Again. It's everywhere. Online. On billboards. You learn it everywhere that there is help, and you will be protected and safe. All they have to do is try, rather then just give up right away.

I was in a severely abusive relationship-still have problems with my wrist and ribs from him breaking them-and remember I WAS IN THE DAMN MILITARY! I'm trained to defend myself by any means necessary, trained to escape, or make every attempt to if captive. I am by no means weak, yet I was beaten severely for almost two years.

Do you have any idea how angry I get when people ask me why I didn't "just leave"?

It's the equivalent of "blaming the victim", which is what the abuser does to keep you from leaving-so saying that to an abuse victim is in effect re-victimizing them, making them feel ashamed and weak and more likely to end up in yet another abusive relationship.

After I got out(with the help of friends that became concerned that they hadn't seen me in over a year*), my self-esteem was in the gutter, every time I was asked "why didn't you just leave, there's tons of help out there?" I heard: "wow you were obviously too stupid to get help so you deserved what you got." And from the people I've talked to that have been in abusive relationships, that feeling is almost universal.

information for anyone that wonders why abused people don't "just leave"

and another that discusses something called Psychological Reversals

Psychological Reversals are pervasive mental blocks that prevent you from making changes that are in your best interests. They are areas of yourself where you cannot change and do not understand what is happening to you. They are the dogmatic self-limiting beliefs, which keep you stuck, even when you want to act differently. They usually are in the subconscious mind and you are not aware of them.

*I was cut off from family and friends, he took the phone to work with him and locked me IN the house. I had no job, no money, and when I told him I was leaving and getting a restraining order I was reminded that by the time the police arrived my entire family would be dead, because he wasn't going to jail for me. Restraining orders don't work on abusers 90% of the time. And the shelters around here will only take you in if you have kids, as their space is limited. Plus my family would still be in danger-put there by my actions of leaving.

[AdminAssistant]

Miitchell Johnson and Andrew Golden. Killed five people, injured ten with guns. Mitchell was released eight years later. Andrew ten.

Mitchell is already back in prison. I think Andrew was smart enough to follow orders to move out of state and keep a low profile.

[Rapscallion]

This is a friendly reminder, soon to be an unfriendly reminder, that we don't tolerate personal attacks on this site.

Rapscallion

[Eisa]

...I think I can't really respond to that point right now, or I'm going to well...go incandescent and that would probably get me with trouble.

But you seriously don't understand the dynamics of an abusive relationship. At all.

[Plaidman]

Really? There are a million freaking ways to be safe? When you're being hurt and manipulated and mind-fucked every day, when your friends ignore your cries for help, when you don't dare go to the police for fear he'll kill you? Abusers are geniuses at making it seem like they're the good guy, like you're crazy, like they haven't done anything.

Again. It's everywhere. Online. On billboards. You learn it everywhere that there is help, and you will be protected and safe. All they have to do is try, rather then just give up right away.

[Ipecac Drano]

Miitchell Johnson and Andrew Golden. Killed five people, injured ten with guns. Mitchell was released eight years later. Andrew ten.

Thank you for that, but that doesn't mean that it happens in all or even most cases. (Not to mention that teenagers get more lenient sentences than adults do.)

There are other people that do that. Some people who murder get out after a year or two, simply because the person they killed was abusing them for years and they snapped.

Which is different than people who kill at random and for other reasons.

So naturally they get released. Murder is murder. Regardless of why.

Too bad reality isn't as black and white as you may think it is. Let's just do away with the Constitutional justice system and install frontier justice while we're at it, huh?

[Eisa]

Really? There are a million freaking ways to be safe? When you're being hurt and manipulated and mind-fucked every day, when your friends ignore your cries for help, when you don't dare go to the police for fear he'll kill you? Abusers are geniuses at making it seem like they're the good guy, like you're crazy, like they haven't done anything.

[Plaidman]

It obvious. Ok, there are help signs every where. There are a million freaking ways to be safe, and people just refuse to belive it, and accept the abuse. All it takes is one call, and a freaking guts to you know, press charges rather then pleading with police to let their wife beating husband go.

Had the husband attempted to kill the wife at the time, then yeah, self defense. Sneaking away from your hotel, break into his house where his mistress is, and blowing them both away with guns, then taking your kids out on vaction, was no cause for self defense. THat was premedited murder.

[Eisa]

^Now I don't think I agree with that. Because then state-sanctioned execution is "murder is murder, regardless of why." There's a difference between just wanting to kill someone for thrills, and feeling like you have no other choice because someone has been abusing and hurting you for years and no one else will help you and you keep getting hurt.

[Plaidman]

"5 to 10 years"? That's hardly the norm or more. Anybody who gets out after 5 to 10 years most likely wasn't imprisoned for that severe of a crime in the first place.

Miitchell Johnson and Andrew Golden. Killed five people, injured ten with guns. Mitchell was released eight years later. Andrew ten.

There are other people that do that. Some people who murder get out after a year or two, simply because the person they killed was abusing them for years and they snapped.

So naturally they get released. Murder is murder. Regardless of why.

[Ipecac Drano]

Exactly. Even 1 repeat offender is 1 too many. Coddling these prisoners gets us nowhere. I agree that we shouldn't spend millions of dollars on murder trials, but there needs to be a better, cheaper way to effectively ensure these criminals get the punishment due to them.

Like giving them training and education? Sadly, a lot of bloodthirsty people would rather pay the taxes to see prisoners get The Chair instead of having money go to programs that teach job skills. A great number of criminals have no way out of the crime loop.

Far too often life imprisonment just means 5 to 10 years and out for good behavior.

"5 to 10 years"? That's hardly the norm or more. Anybody who gets out after 5 to 10 years most likely wasn't imprisoned for that severe of a crime in the first place.

And the victims get no justice.

They never do. Just because the bad guy got put away, it doesn't mean that loved ones come back from the grave, etc.

No more pampering, goodies from the canteen, cable, gym, every comfort we have on the outside world.

Yeah, prison rations are great...

No more. They do not deserve it. I understand that many people here don't like the thought of punishing criminals, but if we fail to enforce our laws and fail to punish these criminals suitably, our society will fall.

There are other things that would do us in faster than not inflicting severe penalties on criminals.

[christopher]

Exactly. Even 1 repeat offender is 1 too many. Coddling these prisoners gets us nowhere. I agree that we shouldn't spend millions of dollars on murder trials, but there needs to be a better, cheaper way to effectively ensure these criminals get the punishment due to them. Far too often life imprisonment just means 5 to 10 years and out for good behavior. And the victims get no justice. Life should mean life. No more pampering, goodies from the canteen, cable, gym, every comfort we have on the outside world. No more. They do not deserve it. I understand that many people here don't like the thought of punishing criminals, but if we fail to enforce our laws and fail to punish these criminals suitably, our society will fall.

[Plaidman]

Want to point out there are a lot of places where you can't GET the morning after pill...pharmacists are allowed to refuse to give it out, I believe...

Correct. They are perfectly allowed to refuse. But not every single pharmacist is going to refuse. Live in a tiny one pharmacist hamlet? Go to next city. Don't have a car? Ask a friend. Have no friends or friends with car? Talk to police that hey, the pharmacist is refusing, and I don't want a rapists baby. They refuse? Call lawyer. There are plenty of ways to do it, if you know, ya freaking try more then once and don't give up because you failed once.

I'm against the death penalty. 100% against it.

Agreed, though I've been severeally tempted alot.

I also agree that "torture" is NOT the way to get people to stop offending.

Perhaps. It very likely stop alot of people who don't like being tortured.

Problem with the punishment systems, is that everyone is different and reacts different to everything. It's why murderers and rapists spend their vaction in prison, get out and do it again, with increased education, and a better understanding of how they get caught. Justice system cradles these people and treat them with huge amounts of kindness and respect, while brushing off their victims like they are pieces of shit, and it's nothing.

Big muscle guys in prison have no fear of being raped or beaten in prison, they'd easy overcome and rule the other prisoners through fear and intimidation, or charisma. So he's the king in prison. Not really any punishment there. Throw him in a cell, where he has no power over others? Where he cannot talk or see or hear and just simmer in darkness, with only a few hours for education? He'd very likely no longer commit crimes any more. Do the same punishment to a different criminal? He'd have the time of his life. He wouldn't suffer a day, and he go right back to commiting crimes when he's released.

THey state the punishent must fit the crime. The punishment needs to fit the criminal. Not all criminals are going to learn from same punishents as others.

And people act like 30 percent that don't recommit is great? Wow. So 10 murders and rapists get caught and do the same program, only 3 of them will no longer rape and murder. That is freaking awesome. THat system works GREAT!

[Eisa]

Want to point out there are a lot of places where you can't GET the morning after pill...pharmacists are allowed to refuse to give it out, I believe...

I'm against the death penalty. 100% against it. And that's with being a victim of rape. I could probably list off almost ten separate charges for ONE person, with all the shit he did to me. Do I want him to be killed? No. Murdering them back doesn't solve anything. There's not even the slightest chance that they could realize what they did was wrong and try to make amends. I did a speech on this and I can't recall the figures offhand, but it's something like a million dollars more to try a death penalty case than a life without parole case...and most of the time, after appeals, it's commuted to life without parole, anyway. So bye-bye all that money that could be put to far better use. I also agree that one innocent person put to death is one person too many.

I also agree that "torture" is NOT the way to get people to stop offending.

If you want to just kill off everyone who commits a crime, then fine. But that's not going to make the world perfect and it's not anything but justice and revenge. Sorry.

[christopher]

That is just more proof that gangbangers need to be punished more severely if they are trying to drag 7 year olds into their gangs. Prison rehab doesn't seem to be helping them. And if there are anti gang community programs out there, with all this increased gang violence, they aren't working. I have no sympathy towards criminals and their excuses. They are responsible for their actions and should be justly punished for them.