Execution delays

[linguist]

Even so.....things have progressed a LOT in the last hundred years........and the likelihood of someone innocent being executed is still remote at best.

you're right, things have progressed a lot, and i'm sure in the past innocents were killed much more frequently. still, however remote the possibility, the fact remains that it still happens, and until such time as we can be assured that an innocent person will *never* be killed on death row, the state shouldn't be in the business of killing people.

here's a question i'd like to pose: if the difference between "execution" and "murder" is the innocence of the victim, should we be prosecuting those responsible for the state-sanctioned death row murders of innocent victims?

[telecom_goddess]

when you look at the reality of the situation, which is continually shrinking state and city budgets limiting access to such technology, mostly low-income defendants unable to pay for their own defense, overly ambitious or aggressive police and prosecutors willing to make a conviction at any cost, and overworked, underpaid public defenders unable or unwilling to mount a vigorous defense of their clients, and you still have innocents being railroaded regardless of the state of technology.

Even so.....things have progressed a LOT in the last hundred years........and the likelihood of someone innocent being executed is still remote at best. Besides executions take so damn long to carry out anymore that the person is more likely to die of old age, as someone pointed out. It's not like the old days where someone was convicted and hauled out back to hang that day.

[linguist]

With technology getting more and more advanced (and god knows forensics has tools we can only dream of) it will be easier and easier to prove someone is guilty beyond a doubt, and there will be less and less possibly innocent people being executed.

sorry for jumping backwards in the thread, but i missed this and felt it should be addressed.

you're making a fallacious assumption here based on a perfect world, which we all know is not the case.

when you look at the reality of the situation, which is continually shrinking state and city budgets limiting access to such technology, mostly low-income defendants unable to pay for their own defense, overly ambitious or aggressive police and prosecutors willing to make a conviction at any cost, and overworked, underpaid public defenders unable or unwilling to mount a vigorous defense of their clients, and you still have innocents being railroaded regardless of the state of technology.

and even if technology reduces the number of innocents executed, it won't eliminate the occurrence. and while i hate to beat a dead horse, one innocent murdered by the state is one too many.

[blas87]

accused murderers. There, happy?

[linguist]

In all honesty, the amount of people who have murdered and have been rightfully caught and brought to justice far outweigh the number of murderers who have been falsely accused and imprisoned and put to death.

it really doesn't matter if the number of people rightfully put to death outweigh those who have been killed while innocent. one innocent murdered by the state is one too many.

and for the record, someone falsely accused of murder is not a murderer.

[blas87]

That's not really the best of comebacks, because it's not an every day occurance. Perhaps it's because a lot of you are from bigger cities or larger areas, but around here, when there is a murder case, it's usually a very big deal, and there is almost always ONE suspect (unless it was a team effort) and without a doubt, it is the person who did it. Granted, most of it around here is domestic or drug related and not like a drive by or gang thing, and it's easier to pinpoint the murderer when all evidence points to the boyfriend or ex girlfriend or ex husband or ex wife.

In all honesty, the amount of people who have murdered and have been rightfully caught and brought to justice far outweigh the number of murderers who have been falsely accused and imprisoned and put to death.

[linguist]

I have compassion and value for other people, something a murderer and violent criminal does not. I am the better person.

those of us opposed to the death penalty also have compassion and value for other people. i have compassion and value for those who are wrongly convicted. innocent people have been killed on death row. other people are fortunately proven innocent before they can be killed. in any case, the death penalty is the ultimate penalty, and if an innocent is executed it's not like the state can just say "oops, we were wrong. here's your life back."

[blas87]

I fail to see what makes people who believe in the death penalty monsters or barbaric or any other label I've been accused of being in threads like these before, or putting them to death making people monsters.

It all starts in the beginning. Showing no mercy, no thought of another person's life and just taking it away......that is something that is the worst of the worst you can do to a person, to take away their right to live. If you don't value the lives of others around you, why should anyone value yours?

I often hear that argument about being the better person or not sinking to that level, and it really doesn't work for me. See, it could have all been prevented if Joe Blow didn't all of a sudden shoot his ex girlfriend and her new boyfriend. It is not sinking to that level or being a monster yourself if you hope that Joe Blow gets the death penalty.

Perhaps it's because I think of the victims and their value more than the perp. Innocent people's lives taken away, family and friends now grieving with a huge loss, a community now terrified of the truth that it can happen anywhere, their safety, their justice, their closure is more important than Joe Blow's comfort and his very life as far as I'm concerned. If you show no value towards another human being's right to life and just take it away on your own accord for whatever your own delusional or psychotic or unbalanced reasons are, why should anyone show it back to you, and why should you still have a right to live?

I don't need to feel pressured to be a better person or feel bad about believing in the death penalty or consider myself a monster. I am a better person because I am not a murderer or a violent criminal. I have compassion and value for other people, something a murderer and violent criminal does not. I am the better person.

[guywithashovel]

I tend to oppose the death penalty, though I usually don't fret much when homicidal maniacs get sentenced to death. The execution process is so slow and expensive, and many of them end up sitting on death row for decades before an execution date is even considered. It's often a life sentence with a different name. Take Scott Peterson, for instance. He was sentenced to death, and given the number of inmates on California's death row and how slowly it goes through the process, he'll likely die of natural causes before he ever has to face the execution chamber.

Also, I tend to think life imprisonment is a more severe punishment. Look at how they live in there. They get a 9 x 6 ft cell that in many cases has to be shared with another inmate. They have to eat and sleep when told to do so. They have to deal with other inmates who probably want to harm them. They have to shower only when permitted, and when they do, they have to worry about "making friends" in there. I think I'd gladly take lethal injection as opposed to living like that for the rest of my days.

[Greenday]

so we as a society should become merciless monsters just like them?

That's what I'm getting from these arguments. In order to get rid of ruthless killers, we need to become ruthless killers ourselves.

[BlaqueKatt]

They chose to rape/murder their victims but they plead for the courts to show them the mercy they denied their victims?!!

I think this proves the "vengance" point made earlier

Monsters like them deserve no mercy nor pity.

so we as a society should become merciless monsters just like them?

[tropicsgoddess]

It kind of sickens me that we have to worry about the safety and comfort of people who showed no such thing towards their victim(s). We have already made the death penalty a way of putting them to sleep, I don't see how it can be anymore simple, or why we have to worry about them experiencing pain or discomfort while being executed.

I agree. What sickens me more is how these monsters try to play that lethal injection will be excruciatingly painful/whatever bullshit excuse card to delay the execution or try and get commuted to life sentence. Fuck them. They chose to rape/murder their victims but they plead for the courts to show them the mercy they denied their victims?!! Monsters like them deserve no mercy nor pity. Lethal injection is just euthanasia and nothing more. Too bad so many states did or already are doing away with the more painful methods of execution (gas chamber, Ol'Sparky etc.). I think they should bring back hanging,drawing and quartering for these monsters...now THAT would give 'em something to beg mercy for.

[telecom_goddess]

With technology getting more and more advanced (and god knows forensics has tools we can only dream of) it will be easier and easier to prove someone is guilty beyond a doubt, and there will be less and less possibly innocent people being executed.

Look what happens when the death penalty gets outlawed, you have people like Charles Manson who SHOULD HAVE BEEN EXECUTED have his sentence changed to life in prison. Then when they bring back the death penalty he no longer has to worry because god forbid we should go back to his original sentence and kill the poor guy.

Fuck that nonsense. People have been stuck for decades and continue being stuck paying for that man's upkeep in prison. Why the hell is he still alive?

I'm sure it was in jest but I'm not too opposed to the hand / feet cutting off idea either.....maybe people would learn that to do a crime means actual punishment that you don't like. Instead of a free home and free meals and free college and all that other crap.

[Greenday]

tbh that was more of a joke comment

I know. I was just adding to it.

[Ginger Tea]

tbh that was more of a joke comment
but news of the world / mirror readers comments to any pedo case normally have references to dick removal in them, im surprised the paper isnt soggy the ammount of froth comming out of editors mouths